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Old 05-24-2005, 09:22 PM
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qtr. mile blues

Hello,
I would like to share my time slip with you to see what you think. I have read the posts on breaking the 13's. This is where I'm at.
73 camaro
373 auburn
275/50/15 drag radials
355
edel.rpm heads
rpm intake, cam
770 holley, 1inch spacer
ceramic headers
flat top coated pistons approx. 9.8 - 10.2 compression
700 trans, shift kit, servo, 2500
Pretty much the 410 hp combo. The car weighs 3800 #'s. I thought when I bought these parts that I would be in the 12's easily. Ha Ha Ha I learned again the hard way. I have even swapped carbs, intakes, and cams and my time in the qtr. mile has not changed much. Here is what I ended up with 2 days ago.
2.4 60ft.
6.1 330
9.1 1/8
80.35 1/8mph
14.02 1/4
100.04 1/4mph
My best time so far is 13.999. Any comments please,
I'm thinking decreasing my compression and buying one of them small weiand blowers, maybe picking up another 100hp.

Thanks for listening
Ron

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Old 05-24-2005, 09:32 PM
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You need to change your gears. You've got a combination that revs pretty good but you don't have the gears to let it perform. I suggest 3.90-4.11 and then check your time slip.
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Old 05-24-2005, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
2.4 60ft
I agree... This kinda tells the tale... With that much weight its hard with small cubes to get it down to where you want to be... Although with the 700R4 and its first gear being nice and low it does seem like something is amiss...?

couple of other questions come to mind also...? What RPM at the line and what gear...? (3rd...?)
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Old 05-24-2005, 09:39 PM
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3.73 auburn is fine....but the 2.4 timeslip is pathetic. There is at LEAST .5 off your time if not more. Is it spinning hard or what out of the hole?
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Old 05-24-2005, 10:34 PM
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line

I'm crossing the line in third gear at 5500 rpm. I don't know if higher gears will let me cross the line without redlining to much. It seems like I'm peaked out on rpms already. Can I pull to 6000 or 6500 with stock rods and crank. Also it's a two bolt that I really should put studs in? I'm leaving the green light slower than I would like. I watched it on my camcorder and it looked way slow off the line. Tires are not spinning much. I'm still tuning the holley 3rd set of jets, nozzles, springs, and also a 50cc pump which I'm about to take the pump back off and put 30 back on.
Thank you
Ron
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Old 05-24-2005, 10:47 PM
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Old 05-24-2005, 10:53 PM
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Well got to thinking about it and reminded me of the problem I have right now... So I ran the numbers through a calculator that is here and figured roughly that you have a 26.5 tall tire and with the other figures you gave (rpm, rear ratio, trans ratio & mph) and entered them under the converter slip calculator and it figures to a 16% slip...? 5-7% is acceptable...? The converter may be the real problem...? thoughts...?
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Old 05-24-2005, 11:40 PM
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Yeah, get the converter squared away and then figure out how much timing it wants. My little brother runs a similar combination except 14/1 C.R. roller motor and it runs 10.40s reliably in a 2700# door car. In terms of what rpm to spin it to would depend on how much time was spent setting up the lower end. The stock crank and rods will live fine to 6200+ for a long time if the crank and mains are straight to begin with. Iam not familiar with your cam so I dont know where it stops pulling at but if it is stopping at 5500 then thats it anyway.
















i
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Old 05-25-2005, 12:20 AM
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Could probably do with a bit less carb too. What is your timing set at? What RPM is it all in by?

That combo should easily be in the 13's. What are the specs on the cam?

What was your reaction time?
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Old 05-25-2005, 06:02 AM
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set-up

NSX is on the right track...... You don't need to change the gears....

That 2.4 60 ft is a killer. You get that down to a 1.9 or so and you will be in the middle to high 12's....

Now for the problem,,,, I did not see in your post what cam you are running or what centerline it is installed at?????

Those numbers sound like a classic example of what happens when you over cam a low compression engine......and put it in a heavy car
In your post you gave a 9.8-10.2 range for compression so i assume your guessing at it??? Tell us more about your engine and we can get close on the static compresssion.

What piston brand,, part #
Was it zero decked???
What cc are the cylinder heads???
What head gasket????

Do a cranking compression test and let us know what the cylinder PSI is.....

Does your slip have the weather station info on it ??? If so give us the readings????

Keith
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Old 05-25-2005, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star
Now for the problem,,,, I did not see in your post what cam you are running or what centerline it is installed at?????
He said he has a "rpm intake, cam". That cam (if the non-roller RPM cam, part #7102) is 234*/244* @ 0.050, .488"/.510" lift, 112 lsa @ 107 intake centerline. I had a similar setup in my Camaro at one time. 355, RPM heads, #7102 cam, Stealth intake, Holley 650 DP, similar compression, 700R4, 2800 stall, etc. However, I had a 4.10 with a 28" tall tire. IMO - that cam is fine for that setup, although the car could stand to go on a diet.

I never ran it at the track, but based on other cars I had taken down the track, I know that it was nothing less than a low 13 second, high 12 second car. Granted, my car with me in it only weighed about 3400#, you should be doing a lot better than 13.99 @ 100 mph.

You need to work on your 60 ft. time as stated by others. There is no reason your combination is not getting you 60 ft. times under 2 seconds and low 13 runs. But I also suspect that your tune is probably way off.

Quote:
Pretty much the 410 hp combo
That package is tuned. I'll bet you have that 770 carb on there "out-of-the-box". And as Siggy requested, how is your timing set up?

Please confirm K-star's questions and NXS' question regarding how your car is leaving out of the hole. We can clearly help you, just need some more input.

Ed www.edgesz28.com
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Old 05-25-2005, 08:46 AM
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quicker 60 ft.

Hey thanks for the replys.
My reaction time was ranging from 7.12 to 1.2. I thought that your reaction time didn't count as far as your time goes. I was told you could sit there and the clock don't start until you leave.
The pistons are silvolite 648h3437, which claim 10.3.
The block deck hasn't been cut down from what I was told by the guy I purchased motor from.
Heads are 64cc ported a little bigger with gasket and intake. I used felpro head gakets not sure on part number, but I'd guess on .040 thickness.
My timeslips have no weather info on them. I can tell you though that it was 50 degrees that night.
I purchased a new distributor stock because the old one was sticking. I put lighter springs in it. I put the adjustable vac. can and limiter plate. My timing is all in by 2800. It feels the best at 36 degrees. I went a little further and I heard our old friend talking to me (knock, knock, knock).
I stated earlier the car is leaving to slow maybe it's the 50cc pump. I have been tuning on this holley for a while I changed discharge nozzles 4 times, I stared using the tubular type this last time. I jetted up the primaries until I was to rich then went back down. Must of changed jets at least a half dozen times. Went through pump cams and now I'm at a bigger pump which I don't know if I like or not. Could this be hurting my 60ft? I also have been going lighter on the secondaries springs. I installed a 02 sensor by cutting off a spark plug non fouler and welded it to the collector. I have a sunpro air fuel mixture gauge.
I'm also running full exhaust with flowmaster 2 chamber 40 series. I wonder how much this is slowing me down. I'm about to run straight pipes.
The car does have traction bars, Frame connectors welded, and all new rubber bushings.
I was told that running a 700 compared to a 350th that it will effect your qtr. mile time by .800 for the worse because of the wide gap in between first and second gear. Can this be true?
Thanks much
Ron
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Old 05-25-2005, 08:49 AM
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Cam

Good catch Ed i totally missed that in his post....

I have used that cam in a few engines and it does work good in a 10.1 or better engine. What i was thinking is that if he has the 70 cc heads and the pistons are .020 down he could have a 9.0:1 engine.... With that cam the engine would be lazy.....Way to much cam for a 9.0:1 engine in my opinion....

I had a vortec headed 355 that was 10.2:1 with that cam in a 3300 lb chevelle. Stock converter, full 2.5" exhaust, 3:31 gears , on street radials it went 12.90's so he should be close to that even with the xtra weight... because of the good first gear in the 700r plus the 3:73 rear gear....

One of the clues for me is the mph... i think that is off for a engine making over 400 hp...... My mph was almost 109....

keith
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Old 05-25-2005, 09:01 AM
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woops

you were typing at the same time i was...L.O.L.

Ok with the info you gave your engine should be around 9.7:1 That is on the edge for that cam in my opinion in a car as heavy as yours... I would do a cranking compression test and see what the cylinder pressure is next... We might be able to advance the cam 4 to 8 degrees if it in straight up and get you some more cylinder PSI.....

The person that told you that about the 700 r is full of ..............With the extra first gear it will help getting that heavy car moving, providing you can get the suspension working correct.

You reaction time has nothing to do with the ET. The timers do not start untill you leave. If you sit there for 5 minutes after the green the car will still have the same ET......

When you said stock distributor do you mean a stock hei???

What is you initial timing and at what rpm are you checking it????

It sounds like you have made alot of changes>>>> Did any of them result in a quicket ET??????

Keith
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Old 05-25-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-star

You reaction time has nothing to do with the ET. The timers do not start untill you leave. If you sit there for 5 minutes after the green the car will still have the same ET......

Keith
Sorry . . . this was just more for curiousity sake. Not meant to add to the discussion.
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