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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:20 AM
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Jester, where dissimilar metals react when in contact w/each other is an electrical reaction called "galvanic reaction". It can cause corrosion of the zinc the carb body and airhorn is made of. Aluminum is only used in the baseplate of a Q-jet.

So the white deposits are zinc oxide or zinc "rust". It forms when the dichromate coating is damaged or removed. The thing w/removing the corrosion is it does tend to return if conditions favor it, so the best bet is to keep water away from the carb, drain it and use mineral spirits inside when stored, and don't make matters any worse by using strong acids or mechanical means that removes the zinc dichromate finish.

I'm in contact w/Caswell Plating to see what can be done about replating/restoring the chromate finish on zinc carbs. This is much less a case of wanting a factory looking finish than it is making the carb as corrosion resistant as it can be. If there's any interest I'll post what I find out.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:29 AM
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Who knew that I would learn so much about white crap that forms in the bottom of a carb all the way down to its proper chemical name? If I were technical I just might care. Jester, it seems to me ever since you seen the thread of me bashing holley carbs you have to bash back only you claim your not. This thread was many pages back and here it is, what was the point in bringing it back just to educate me on white crap in the bowl?
Furthermore, I stated facts on holley carbs based on MY experiences, not yours or anyone elses which leaves anyone else free to base there own opinions on. You like holleys? good for you and fine by me.
I listed the problems I've had with holleys so that others may learn something. I did not mention how many times I've gotten one new in the box with pieces missing such as the simple gaskets that go around the bowl bolts. You also mentioned what wore the bushings out in my former Holley 600 was the spring was too tight. That could well be why the cheap plastic bushings wore out, but that carb had not been touched other than the basic adjustments for running conditions plus it was on the secondary side and it's not very often the secondaries are kicked in on the street. I was making the point that who, (besides holley) uses PLASTIC for bushings? Cheap Much? And at the time I had that carb Holley did NOT carry replacements which encourages one to buy a new carb which they would perfer you do anyways. On a final note when I poured that stuff in my Quadrajet the foam came out of every passage which told me they are clear. To be sure if that I always run something through every passage on a carb before I rebuild it. The guys who answered my question on this thread also had the white stuff in there carbs and once cleaned they all said there carbs worked fine, but according to you mine is not going to, I guess my carb must be different from theres?
Is there something about me that comes across to you that I'm a moron that your bound to set straight? Going by how much you've had to say as well as the PM's you sent it sure looks that way. Do me a favor and look at how long I've been here and how many posts that are credited to my name. Now look back in my history and see how many questions I asked and see how many I answered. You'll find that 90 percent are ones I answered or gave my experience on but I don't suppose that means anything. I guess all my posts were just for fun to watch my count go up.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleVision
I got to digging in the bathroom to see what we had and I found a bottle of that stuff called "works" So I poured some in the bowl of the Q-jet and right away it started boiling, foam came out of all the passages which told me they were opened up nicely and then the smell hit me, that stuff stinks to high heaven and I thought this stuff must have caustic soda in it as the steam was rising off the foam which confirmed my suspicions.
Just a quick FYI- the foaming action was caused by the reaction between zinc and the hydrochloric acid (about 20%) contained in "The Works". That is if this is what you used, it's toilet bowl cleaner. Some toilet bowl cleaners are bleach based, they do basically nothing to zinc, including not cleaning it. BTW, never mix an acid w/bleach or bleach containing cleaners else you will expose yourself and family to chlorine gas.

Hope I didn't stir up anything by posting the last time. I thought it might help someone.

Jester, you mentioned contacting a carb company. I did, and Holley said they can repassivate the zinc carb body/airhorn. I don't recall the exact price, but it was a LOT more than I was willing to pay in the early 90's.

There are guys who sell rebuilt carbs on eBay that will work w/an individual to refinish carbs. I have zero experience w/any of them so cannot comment further than to say they exist. Right now, I'm hoping for a workable solution from Caswell.

Last edited by cobalt327; 01-23-2012 at 09:00 AM.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10
Seems you have some nasty stuff that "works" DV,,, this stuff hates aluminum, better be careful dude

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...39431437374611
yikes, dang kids
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Jester, where dissimilar metals react when in contact w/each other is an electrical reaction called "galvanic reaction". It can cause corrosion of the zinc the carb body and airhorn is made of. Aluminum is only used in the baseplate of a Q-jet.

So the white deposits are zinc oxide or zinc "rust". It forms when the dichromate coating is damaged or removed. The thing w/removing the corrosion is it does tend to return if conditions favor it, so the best bet is to keep water away from the carb, drain it and use mineral spirits inside when stored, and don't make matters any worse by using strong acids or mechanical means that removes the zinc dichromate finish.

I'm in contact w/Caswell Plating to see what can be done about replating/restoring the chromate finish on zinc carbs. This is much less a case of wanting a factory looking finish than it is making the carb as corrosion resistant as it can be. If there's any interest I'll post what I find out.
Cobalt: I know what Quadrajets are made of : I tried to explain it as simple as I could I Think I said carb material (I'll have to re read my post)>But trying not to give a class on basic metallurgy or chemistry (We're not here for that). I used aluminum oxide as an example Every element on earth creates oxides during normal oxidation (elemental break down or oxidation)! and when dissimilar materials come in contact with moisture And some times it doesnt need moisture it just speeds up the process dried chemicles increase it more, I wasnt going to name them all its basically all the same process and I wasnt going to name all the materials carbs are made of! it would have been never ending I wasnt even going to post, I was checking for a part for a Quarajet on line and this hotrodders thread came up!!! And the first thing that hit my mind was some kid picking up toilet cleaner and pouring it into his carb and destroying it like an edelbrock or carter or etc, Not to mention a kid taking a wiff of some of the stuff mentioned and being rushed to the hospital for chemical pneumonia and lung tissue damage!! Even vinegar can break down aluminum in a very short time!! This long speech isn't really meant for you because I read all your posts and threads and Know your knowledgeable ! And you call it like it is!

To you people that dont know Even the aluminum foil we cook on has a protective coating to stop corrosion while its in the box on the shelf and it would turn white and powdery without it!

I dont think what you wrote above was to give me a class Or correct me on what I said ( if you meant it that way I didnt take it that way,I hope you weren't) I hope you were pointing out something I left out >I know what galvanic reaction is. Electrolysis is when you purposely apply current , Galvanic is a self occurring process When too dissimilar elements react. If any one posted electrolysis I knew what they meant (or if I said that! I knew what I meant too!!) LOL The people on here and the suggestions they made about the caustic materials wouldn't know the difference anyway

Cobalt is right on every thing he said! ( and I used Mystery oil to store carbs many years ago because I was taught that way, It contained Whale oil back then maybe its different now! I didnt use mineral spirits Because it swelled rubber o ring Etc, IT might be different now ( mineral spirits might be a little gentler now< and theres not much made out of rubber any more) Cobalt If mystery oil is bad I need to know Im not too old too learn!

Im interested in the Caswell plating even if I am retired (I'll still be getting grease under my nails

Chris
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
Jester, where dissimilar metals react when in contact w/each other is an electrical reaction called "galvanic reaction". It can cause corrosion of the zinc the carb body and airhorn is made of. Aluminum is only used in the baseplate of a Q-jet.

So the white deposits are zinc oxide or zinc "rust". It forms when the dichromate coating is damaged or removed. The thing w/removing the corrosion is it does tend to return if conditions favor it, so the best bet is to keep water away from the carb, drain it and use mineral spirits inside when stored, and don't make matters any worse by using strong acids or mechanical means that removes the zinc dichromate finish.

I'm in contact w/Caswell Plating to see what can be done about replating/restoring the chromate finish on zinc carbs. This is much less a case of wanting a factory looking finish than it is making the carb as corrosion resistant as it can be. If there's any interest I'll post what I find out.
Ion migration from anode to cathode is also called Electrolisis.
Can be zinc oxide or aluminum oxide in there..
Man! what a discussion..people get flustered on here....
Ps. I only drink the Coca Cola
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 03:17 PM
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Double vision: I wasnt bashing you, You posted a very good Question!! ,It was the answers you were getting!! I dont push any products on here especially carbs (To each his own) If you read all my posts youll see I dont push anything !!!! If you took this as a bash!!you havnt read anything that was dumped of mine or it was so bad a bashing it didnt even make it to the dump! Ive been threatened to be expelled in the past. Now Im very careful not to offend Any one and I met a lot of good people here I'd hate to lose that.

If you have something to post that I posted Bashing you! put it on the lounge title it Attention Chris: and let every one read so every one can see And I ask the monitors to let it pass.And dump it later ( Im going to read all my old posts now) If your blowing smoke Ill probably get thrown off here later Im not offended by this so please dont dump it. Ill be back in a bit and if I'm wrong I'll apologize, but I dont think Ill have to! Look monitors Im smiling

Jester

The only one I see that you could misunderstand Is when I said here that I was laughing at your post When I should have said thread and I was laughing at the answers you were getting not at you ! If you find any thing else you missunderstood Ill be watching the loung If you dont want to post on the lounge message me.

Last edited by painted jester; 01-23-2012 at 03:43 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:50 PM
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The post your talking about is on B.G. carbs taken over by Holley you weren't bashed I even commented that Quadrajets were a good carb I think you read that post wrong!! I posted carbs I had trouble with! I dont remember Quadrajets (I never had that many problems) were even mentioned! I did say there may be a problem with your supplier from my personnel exp. I even said I didnt doubt you had those problems you stated>

You stated: "If I were Technical I might care" on this thread you think this is Technical . Its basic high school stuff. No one has to bash you when you write stuff like that. You were looking for something and took my words out of contexts to fit your rant. I think you need to cool off and re-read! I also think you read it expecting to get what you thought you read. I did that myself when I was younger. Cobalt was on that thread so was topwrench If they message me and get the same meaning as you did on that post I'll apologize. Or maybe the monitors will let it pass If they post it on this thread . Even though its not the place.

Jester
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:06 PM
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Jester,I read all ur posts too n dont think u based anybody!
I dont care what carb people use,but if there is a question about a carb doin damage to a motor I build I dont use it.Thats what I was trying to say.
On boats we use galvanic isolators all the time to prevent electrolisis,we also use zinc anodes so they will get desroyed before Aluminum or Brass engine components will.
So anyway I think everybody needs to cool it,I also read this whole thread and he got some really good info here.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:14 PM
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AFAIK MM oil shouldn't hurt anything. I mentioned mineral spirits because that's what I've used in the past, but even being left dry is an option as long as it's bagged w/a dessicant.

I'm not a fan of storing a carb fully built. If possible I'd rather keep it apart so the pump piston seal isn't left sitting in the pump forever and a day waiting to be used. Plus who knows exactly what jetting and power piston spring may be needed, unless it was a spare carb for an engine that wasn't going to have any changes made to it that would effect the carb tune.

The reason I brought up the galvanic deal was I read acid somewhere, just wanted to set the record straight on that. More damage is done by improper cleaning than any galvanic action anyway. Once the zinc chromate finish is gone (I mistakenly called it dichromate*) it's a matter of time until the underlying zinc corrodes.

* If anyone cares, I was told by the owner of The Carburetor Shop that zinc dichromate is a process that uses electricity, which the zinc chromate carb finish doesn't use, it's dipped into a solution w/o any electricity. Because the carb is zinc it needs nothing but a thorough cleaning then the chromate dip. A steel part would need to first be zinc plated, then the chromate applied over that.

But the bottom line according to the Carb Shop is to forget trying to reapply a chromate finish. To do it "right" requires hydrochloric and nitric acid (both readily available), and chromic acid- which is one of those chemicals on the list of carcinogens (cancer causers) and apparently might as well be made of unobtainium.

Which leaves us w/either sending the carb to Edelbrock (who apparently have found a workaround or have the proper equipment and EPA certification to do it in-house) or to use whatever household/shop methods to rid the carb of it and hope it doesn't come back worse than before.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:22 PM
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Well guys Im the proud owner of a Fish carburator,had on a shelf for years,its apart n still lokks like the day i got it.
Remember Bob Fish?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topwrench
Well guys Im the proud owner of a Fish carburator,had on a shelf for years,its apart n still lokks like the day i got it.
Remember Bob Fish?
That's cool. I recall Glen Roberts racing w/one and that got a lot of attention for it.

Have any photos of this deal?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:52 PM
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Thanks for the info, Cobalt I'm picking my brain! Fish carburetor? Im interested in pics! I dont know if Ive ever seen one or not? I have heard of a John Fish museum.

Jester
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 08:05 PM
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eBay has an "experimental" Fish (link below). No idea if this is anything like the one topwrench has. I don't know squat about them except the legend about Fireball using one, and I think I recall it being when Smoky was doing his race cars- but I could be mistaken. I hope TR's able to show it to us all.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-FISH-Ca...item3a6f430dfe
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cobalt327
eBay has an "experimental" Fish (link below). No idea if this is anything like the one topwrench has. I don't know squat about them except the legend about Fireball using one, and I think I recall it being when Smoky was doing his race cars- but I could be mistaken. I hope TR's able to show it to us all.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-FISH-Ca...item3a6f430dfe

I never saw one before , very interesting thanks:

Chris

Last edited by painted jester; 01-23-2012 at 08:24 PM. Reason: hit wrong button sorry
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