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Old 12-11-2009, 05:51 PM
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Quality control issues with Holley Street avenger carb's?

Hello guys well I am on my third holley carb now wich is a holley all aluminum 770 street avenger vacuum secondary carburetor. I went through two 670 in wich the first one was horrible and the second was way better out of the box but kept having issues with too much leaness and changing out jets and doing what holley tech advisors told me to do did not help so they told my to send it back to jegs for a replacement. Well got my third one two days ago and just got to put it on today. I checked everything over and checked the accelerator arm clearance at WOT to make sure it would not over travel the accelerator pump diaphram.

Anyways I primed the carb and proceeded to turn the motor over and I had the fuel bowls filled just fine. Well I gave it some gas and still was not getting anything so looked into the carb and started to open the throttle and no gas was coming out I kept opening up the throttle and no gas cam out of the squirter's what so ever. I did not want to have to take the dam thing apart to see what's wrong with it cause it should at least run for cyring out loud out of the box. Holley said to send it back again to jegs and I am now going on a fourth carb from holley cause they can't send me something that actually works right.

I have now had four bad carb's all made from holley in my lifetime that was junk out of the box and did not work right and neither me or my dad who has built many carb's and tuned over the last thirty years could get them to tuneright. I have had two three edelbrocks and nothing wrong with them out of the box. I know how to tune carbs but not like and expert but I know a bad one when I get one. Has anyone else had this much of a bad experience with the holley street avenger carb's? I did a google search and it seems over the last several years some people got good ones out of the box and others had ones that where so bad they could never get them to tune right or had major issues.

I am no expert carb tuner but I have been reading a lot of stuff on how to fine tune a holley and I also have gotten tech books to better learn to do so. Hopefully fourth time is the charm.
Eric

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Old 12-11-2009, 06:04 PM
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That sucks, eric32! I used to say the same things about the quadrajet! It'd be a great excuse to try out the Demon carbs. I'm just putting along with easy tuning Edelbrock auto and manual 600cfms, but I'd like to learn about Holleys with a Demon series carb.
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:56 PM
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Yeah marzini i know where your coming from but I had some bad experiences with demon two years ago but I am not bashing them or anything they do make awesome carbs as does holley and others just wish quality control was better and they would have more pride overseas when they make stuff. Demon I got has the transfer slots all messed on the base and one side was really lean and the other was way rich lol never saw it in my life time. I got a replacement but wanted a little more aggresive carb then it so sold it and got a quick fuel wich is fine but can't mess with it till next spring.

I have never had a bad edelbrock out of the box but I am sure that has happend before. With my experince with edelbrock they are fine for very mild motors but once you get a cam with any amount of overlap getting rid of some minor issues can get tricky wich is why I wanted a holley street avenger style carb I have more fine tuning ability just need to get a good carb to work with.
Eric
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:50 PM
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Exactly, eric— The next mod for me will be a tad more aggressive ramp-wise, at least, I'm considering a retro hydro-roller for the family hot rod fire-wood hauler and a Holley type will definitely be the ticket. Hope your 4th time's the charm!
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:07 AM
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Yeah I told my brother the ohter day I will keep shipping a holley carb till I get one with no issues out of the box that I can actually tune. I will post and let you guys know here how it went. Sounds nice what your wanting to do to your hotrod I agree a holley carb is the way to go for best performance and throttle response wise.
Eric
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Old 12-13-2009, 08:25 AM
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I posted my opinion about that particular carb and got bashed for for negative, inappropriate language. I was told there were millions of them out there with happy owners, they had better step forward and help holly with thier bankruptcy proceedings because things look pretty grim.
Having expressed personal feelings, and i shouldn't, i find it hard to believe that you have had three of these and none have worked. There are two possibilities, holley is assembling these from rejects or otherwise unsatisfactory pieces (i don't think these are assembled in bowlin green, last i heard there were only a few people left there) or you are doing something wrong and not catching it. Shame we aren't closer together, i know i can get them to work as right as they can possibly work, or, if you want to send one of them here i will put it on the mule motor and sort it out for you - shipping costs only. The only problem you'd have when you get it back is that (going from memory from your inital post) you have a bit of a cam and that will interfere with the secondaries.
Damn shame you're having these problems, later oj
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ojh
I was told there were millions of them out there with happy owners,
This is what was said.

" There are lots of Holley Street Avenger carbs out there working just fine, mine included."

Hardly "millions"

Vince
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:53 AM
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Hello ojh sorry that some got mad at you but some have there opinions I gues but no I am not doing anything wrong here. I have studied and read countless posts on carb tuning along with working with my dad who has built hundreds of carbs over the years and has built many engines from ford to chevy and so forth and has over thirty years experience with things and I have learned a lot from him and others on here. The first one I had was completely bad period my dad had never seen anything like it. Got a second one and had some minor issues but called holley besides what I did too it and still no change and it started to act up again.

I then got a third one but this time a 770 instead of a 670 and the somehow the fuel was not coming out of the squirters and I checked the accelerator pump arm for proper clearance and all was good. I could hear the accelerator pump diaphram working but no fuel from squirters. I pumped and pumped thing easy of course and I got nothing but fuel bowls where full. I even have a rebuilt carb under my belt as well as experience and understaning how they funtion and how you tune one thing at a time and not just do hundredsof things at once. Trust me it is the carb and not the installer. When I put my edelbrock on whether my 600 or 750 neither one gives me the issues I had with the holley street avenger's I have delt with.

I am sure the fourth one wil be just fine. I called holley about my second one and explained to them my issues and going up several jet sizes in front and back and also the chanin the squirters like they said to do and I still had not change in the carb's reaction to how it ran. Idle would not hold always having to adjust it and was always lean at half throttle and going forward. My dad's rebuilt holley 4160 1850 model cab was even leaner tuned for his ford 302 stock motor actually ran better then the holley street avenger carb out of the box and it was even leaner tuned but did not have the back fire at idle and no surging at 1/2 throttle or more. If that really means anything I don't know but holley told me to send third one back to jegs and get a replacement. Thanks though for the offer for sending it too you but I will iron the next one out am tired of sending them back cause of defects. Next one I will rebuild and replace with billet metering blocks if I have too.
Eric
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:07 AM
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Eric, like most performance products these days Holley has been affected by the sour economy, and I am quite sure the bankruptcy issue is also affecting Holley quality.

I have been messing with Holley carburetors since high school in 1967. I briefly dabbled with Carter AFB's but always came back to Holley. My best friend at the time loved Quadrajets and everybody hated them including me. He could literally perform magic with a Quadrajet. At one time I had dozens of Holley carbs and bucket loads of Holley parts in my parents garage. I also had loads of 55-57 Chevy parts, but my Dad took the opportunity to clean out the garage while I was away in the Air Force, so that is all history

I guess I was lucky with my Street Avenger as it works great, but I have had it going on six years now so it obviously is a better quality carb than what is coming out of Holley today. It is sad fact with the economy the way it is that these problems will occur. We have seen problems with Barry Grant carbs as well as some other high name performance products. There is no guarantee IMO that you will not get another set of problems with a different carb from another manufacturer. No real answers for you and your problem however. If your Dad is as good with carbs as you say he is, it may be time to rip the next one apart if you are still having problems....if you are intent on having a holley that is.

Vince
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Old 12-13-2009, 12:59 PM
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Hello vince yeah I understand the things holley is going through and such that is why I am going to try a fourth one. I will keep the next one if something is minor with it I will take it apart and look inside. I could rebuild a holley 4150/4160 model carb no problem. I have had my double pumper quick fuel carb apart and had to change a few things around for my other motor. Honestly I love the street avenger all aluminum carb. Zinc carb are fine too but I guess I did not wan the zinc one cause holley had the plating issue a few years ago. It's not holley's fault per say but the overseas quality control issues that is what comes down to the bottom line. Holley assemblers can put the carb together here in the US but if the metering blocks are machined wrong or something else they have no control over that.

Still standing by holley carbs I am going to put my two edelbrock 600 and 750 carbs and the tuning kits for them up on ebay cause I will get a working holley or else. I got a universal refurbished holley 4160 like my dad had on the way as well just in case I need something to hold me over till I get a good working street avenger carb. Take care guys

Eric
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:19 PM
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Before I got a new carb for my present hot rod, I went to the local carb shop who does hundreds of carbs a month maybe more. He had a pile of Ed' carbs that would have planted my dually solidly on the over loads. A matching pile of SA's were 10 feet over. Hard to get in the door. I had planned on having him build a special carb for me but he said he simply could not get the new parts needed. Used he had but he said it was not practical to build a special out of these. He finally recommended a Holley 3310-3 from one of the big suppliers. Still a WAG and shoot but a slight possibility of a good one.

So I got a Holley 3310-c and it was just fine. A few minor tuning changes for my combination but it worked exactly as needed. Thanks to the AFR gage I installed. It has taken a bit to learn this new tuning device but absolutely necessary. Even though I'm an antique my old school methods had to go and did.

Next I went back and asked about blower carbs. He was kind enough to spend some valuable time with me even though essentially he talked me out of custom built carbs again. I got 2 Holley blower carbs from the same supplier again and they have worked out of the box better than I could ever have imagined. I made a couple minor changes for the blower and they have responded wonderfully. Again thanks to the AFR countless hours of fooling around WAG'ing what to do have been eliminated.

I've had at least half a dozen 3310's over the years and they have done pretty well. Don't expect the best economy out of them but they do run good, IMHO

Also done AVS and found them lacking on anything that needs a big accelerator pump shot. I have used Dyer's blower kits for these and they seem to work ok on low boost applications.

Rochesters...well I'm one who has not had the best of experiences with them. Some get great results but not me. Maybe the AFR and a big hand full of parts would help. You can only build so many hotrods in a life time and I really don't feel like wasting any more time on them.

As for the Zinc on the Holleys, I've heard good and bad but I've had 3 in a row that were perfect as far as I'm concerned. I have not experienced a bad one. One of them is 6 years old and the other 2 are 4 months old so I'll just leave it at that.
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Old 12-13-2009, 03:40 PM
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Exactly why I stopped fooling with Holley`s a long time ago and I`ve said it on this board a lot of times is due to the shotty quality control. Many friends would buy new holley`s and I`d have to repair them to make them work.
Now the only carb I use is Quadrajets unless I`m forced to use a square bore carb design due to the intake and then I`ll use a demon.
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Old 12-14-2009, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric32
Well I gave it some gas and still was not getting anything so looked into the carb and started to open the throttle and no gas was coming out
My buddy had this problem on his 770. It was an easy fix however took off the squirter and it had junk in it so just blew it out and fixed it right up. Works like a champ now.
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Old 12-14-2009, 11:44 AM
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I'm surprised that you didn't even remove one screw to check to see if the acc. pump check ball was stuck to its seat.

But be that as it may, Holley and Demon seem to be in a race to see who can throw away their businesses/reputations the fastest!

Personally, I would not buy a new carb, period. But that was also true before any of the quality control issues came out about Demon OR Holley.

30 years ago when you bought a Holley, there was about a 10% chance it would work right out of the box. But this was expected. Not until the carb manufacturers started promising the impossible (bolt it on and go like the wind) did all the tuning woes start surfacing. Carb defects in manufacturing and QC not withstanding.

Q-jets for me, thanks just the same.
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Old 12-14-2009, 05:36 PM
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I understand your guys concern and stuff I guess we all have had different experiences with the different carb makers. I have had the worse with holley by far. I bought a new holley 4160 back in 1999 to put on my second 350 build and man it just literally dumped gas into my intake and I did not even get to get my motor running enough to function right. I had a big cam and other stuff and he did everything to try to make it work and nothing worked just dumped fuel. Went through three sets of plugs in one week cause they where so fuel fowled. Ditched it then got an edelbrock 750 bolted on and changed out the metering and minus the stupid off idle stumble it worked like a charm. Years later ordered a barry grant carb first time.

The fuel transfer slots where machined wrong. Sent back got a second one but it did not work well for my radical shaft I did have and sold it on ebay. Got a quick fuel carb and it was just excellent out of the box but is a little too much for a cruising carb. Is metered too rich for street performance but excellent for track use. Next holley 770 that I get if I have any issues I will take apart and inspect if necessary. Yeah I could have checked by taking off the squirter and making sure about the check pin that is in there but I did not know about that being there till after seeing my holley tuning dvd. O well I will get one working and stuff just have to deal with these things. Bought other stuff performance wise and had issues. Quality control nowadays is pretty much non existent.
Eric
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