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-   -   Question About A 350 Roller Setup (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/question-about-350-roller-setup-226552.html)

ChevroletSS 11-26-2012 04:51 PM

Question About A 350 Roller Setup
 
Hey guys Im not to familiar with roller engines but I have a roller block 350 and was wondering do I need the spider in order to use a roller cam and lifters???

Thanks for any help.

BOBCRMAN@aol.com 11-26-2012 05:05 PM

Yes, unless you use retro fit lifters.

ChevroletSS 11-26-2012 05:28 PM

So I can use retro roller lifters with a normal roller cam not a retro cam. After looking at retro lifters they are pretty dam expensive. Seems like it would be just as much or cheaper to buy the spider with roller lifters. What exactly is the purpose of the spider.

ChevroletSS 11-26-2012 05:43 PM

Nevermind I just seen a video. The spider holds down the lifter locks and the the lifter locks stops the lifters from spinning.

Jim Rockford 11-26-2012 07:50 PM

head to your local junkyard and pick up the parts you need for the swap.

ChevroletSS 11-27-2012 07:14 AM

What about if I used roller lifters (not retro) and used lifter guides like the ones below. Do I still need a spider?

Chevrolet Performance 12595365 Chevrolet Performance Roller Lifter Kit

http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Perf...58652/10002/-1

cobalt327 11-27-2012 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChevroletSS (Post 1616285)
What about if I used roller lifters (not retro) and used lifter guides like the ones below. Do I still need a spider?

Chevrolet Performance 12595365 Chevrolet Performance Roller Lifter Kit

Chevrolet Performance 88958652

Those guides are only for holding the lifters up out of the way of the cam when swapping cams. They aren't for actually guiding the lifters, the dog bones do that and the spider holds the dog bones in position. The first one isn't for the Gen 1 SBC.

Jim Rockford 11-27-2012 09:50 AM

cobalt , you can use that first one on a 87 and up SBC, it replaced the dog bones, but its really doesn't do much good.

cobalt327 11-27-2012 12:40 PM

The first link is top a guide/holder that bolts up to the LS engine. Where would you bolt it to a Gen 1 SBC? Hopefully SSedan64 will come along any enlighten us on it and the second one, which is for the Gen 1.

My take on it is these are to help facillate cam changes by holding the lifters up away from the cam lobes, not to replace the dog bones.

LS enginehttp://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y20...tainers_01.jpg

Gen 1 SBC w/guides and dogboneshttp://paceperformance.com/images/F20095747.gif

oldbogie 11-27-2012 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChevroletSS (Post 1616285)
What about if I used roller lifters (not retro) and used lifter guides like the ones below. Do I still need a spider?

Chevrolet Performance 12595365 Chevrolet Performance Roller Lifter Kit

Chevrolet Performance 88958652

Neither of these are of any use on a Gen I roller. If you're going to install the OEM roller arraingement into a roller block that originally had a flat tappet cam you will need the OEM style lifters, the dog bones that align the OEM style lifters in pairs to the camshaft's direction of rotation, the spider that locates and keeps the dog bones engaged to the lifters, the OEM camshaft thrust plate note that there are two different center to center spacings of the thrust plate retention bolts you need to measure your block to order the correct part and correct pan head bolts to clear the cam gear. Further, the OEM roller cam takes a different timing set, this is usually a single row roller chain, there are differences between what will fit the pre 1996 Vortec and what will fit the 1996 up Vortec. There are some aftermarket twin row roller chain sets, these require a spacer or multiple gasket buildups to get the timing cover to clear the chain and gear depth. The 1996 and up Vortec uses a different and plastic timing cover than the earlier OEM roller engines, these can be interchaged with some minor effort.

Jessel sells a kit that replaces the spider with a stud that passes thorugh the dog bone (a hole that does not exist in the OEM part) which eliminates the spider. Not cheap but effective.

Bogie

Jim Rockford 11-28-2012 08:46 AM

the guides in the second pic are replacing the regular dogbones.. I know i have seen this in either car craft or hotrod...

ssmonty 11-28-2012 05:20 PM

ChevroletSS,
You might want to look at these part #s at Summit. One is the lifter kit made by Chevy(lifters,lifter retainer,dog bones), the other two are the cam retainer plates. Depends on your block hole spacing as to which you'll need. You could get them out of a salvage yard if you don't mind buying someone elses wear and tear. FWIW
ssmonty

Summit pn NAL-12371042 (lifter kit) $244
Summit pn NAL-1016850 or
Summit pn NAL-10080128 (retainer plates)

cobalt327 11-28-2012 05:25 PM

I stand corrected!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Rockford (Post 1616642)
the guides in the second pic are replacing the regular dogbones.. I know i have seen this in either car craft or hotrod...

Looked into this a little more and you are right. I also read of problems when using this set up w/small base circle cams- but that's been an issue w/the dogbones too w/lobes over about 0.354".

First link is to Gen 3/4 parts not applicable to the Gen 1/2 engines AFAIK.

SSedan64 had mentioned on another thread that he had details on installing the second set of parts onto a SBC. Hopefully he'll see this and add something about that.

ChevroletSS 11-29-2012 05:00 AM

Actually that kit made by chevrolet is all that I need. I just couldnt find a kit like that anywhere for a good price.

Thanks guys.

How much cam can those chevrolet roller lifters handle.

cobalt327 11-29-2012 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChevroletSS (Post 1616998)
Actually that kit made by chevrolet is all that I need. I just couldnt find a kit like that anywhere for a good price.

Thanks guys.

How much cam can those chevrolet roller lifters handle.

Roller Warning
From: Chevy Small Block - Roller Cam - Car Craft Magazine
One area where you must be careful with production-based small-block Chevy hydraulic roller lifters is with high-lift camshafts. According to Crane's Director of Valvetrain Research and Development, Mark Campbell, valve lifts of more than 0.530 inch at the valve with a 1.5:1 rocker can allow the lifter to fall deep enough into the lifter bore (because of the lobe's small base circle) that the steel retainer can lose its grip on the lifter body. This allows the lifter to spin in the bore and destroy the camshaft. In checking a few cam catalogs, it is possible to order a hydraulic roller camshaft with enough lobe lift (in excess of 0.354 inch) to create this situation, so just be careful. This is why Crane created a long-travel hydraulic roller lifter that will allow you to run a high-lift hydraulic roller cam with the stock lifter configuration. These eliminate the problem but are also much more expensive than OE replacement lifters. Another solution would be to run a 1.6:1 rocker ratio with a reduced lobe lift cam to accomplish more valve lift.


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