I spent most of the day tinkering with my '66 Galaxie. It has a 302 and C4 tranny from a '68 Fairlane, with stock points-type distributor, but a lot of "shadetree engineering" from previous owner. I was trying to make some of these 'repairs' better, like putting correct terminals on wires and so on. Here's what happened.

One wire, going into the alternator, halfway between the harness it was coming out of and the alternator it connected to (with a ring terminal), had been cut and then simply twisted together (!?!). I took off the twisted-on part and installed a new ring terminal since there was enough length.

There was another wire like that, inbetween the distributor and the ballast resistor, a proper female disconnect terminal, but in the middle merely twisted together. I took off the twisted part, installed a female disconnect terminal on the piece going into the distributor, and put the now shorter wire back on the ballast resistor.

Went to crank it, and it acted like it had a dead battery, very slooow turnover (cranked fine before). I checked all connections again, but still the same problem. I 'reinstalled' the "twisted wires" back on both the alternator and the ballast resistor, cranked up fine. Took off the twisted-on wire to the ballast resistor, again cranked like it had a dead battery.

So, I am sure that the culprit is that wire between the distributor and ballast resistor, but

1) can three inches of 16 gauge wire really make that difference? (it's a simple black wire marked 16 gauge, not the pink resistor wire that are on some Fords)
2) if length is an issue, do I need to get 16 gauge wire again, this time the length that the original and twisted part was, or
3) can I install 14 gauge wire( since I have some of that)? If I do, how long would that wire have to be?
4) finally, do I need a completely different wire gauge and length? like 10 gauge, 12 gauge? I'm pretty sure that 16 is way too small! Everything I remember about ignition calls for at least 14 gauge.

If I can install a larger gauge wire, can I use longer lengths? I'd like to, because the coil is on the engine, and I know that heat is bad for them, and I'd like to be able to mount the coil and ballast resistor on the fenderwell (don't ask where the ballast resistor is ).

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I wanted to be thorough. Thank you ahead of time for responses.

Oh, and just to let you know, the installation of the seat covers went off without a hitch!

Doc here,

First, sounds like you may have a faulty solenoid or corroded loose contacts OR the "R" and "I" terminals may be swapped..the starter should not crank slow because of a ballast resistor..(unless there was a DEAD short on that wire..) The timing may well be over advanced too. if electrical solutions don't cure it..

IF the stock ballast wire is MISSING, go get a coil mounted ballast resistor from the auto parts store and install it..Resistance wires ARE not just a length of wire..they contain certain resistance values..and should NOT be substituted.

Yes you can run new coil wire..10 gauge (recommended) will help the coil/ignition to perform well, and save you the upgrade if you install a performance coil in the future..IF stock, 12 gauge will work fine, 14 gauge is not recommended for a good performing ignition.

NOTHING should be connected to the coil + wire..The coil + wire is a dedicated wire off the ignition switch..If the alternator is connected to this wire you invite all kinds of problems, the least of which is run on after you shut the key off..Find the Ignition wire and connect the coil there. The alternator wire should go to the Battery terminal on the solenoid..this isolates the output and coil with the switch..(at least that is the way GM does it..( Be advised..I'm NOT a Ford guy..)

Doc

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Thanks, Doc. I was hoping you'd answer.

The timing was fine before, and I didn't adjust anything. Same with the starter-- ran fine before. In fact, it runs fine now, but only because I put that little length of wire back on the wire from the ballast resistor to the points in the distributor.

It's a regular, 16 gauge wire, and not a specific resistor wire. The small gauge is what I am thinking is the culprit here. You mention 10 gauge, so I will get some 10 gauge and report back here.

Nothing is connected to the positive terminal on the coil. I installed an aftermarket tach, (on the neg. terminal, as per instructions) but that was last week, and it ran fine, and the only thing different is that now it is inside instead of under the hood (I was tuning my carb). I unplugged it and another set of aftermarket gauges when the car wouldn't start, and afterwards, it still wouldn't start, so I think that the culprit is that wire between the resistor and the dist.

I'll avoid some "honey-do's" as long as I can and tackle this problem today.

Got under the hood this morning to work on it, and I really think I may have another problem. I tried to start the car with 14 gauge wire, no go, and then again with the same, original "twisted together" wire, but this time, wouldn't start. I then pulled the charged battery out of my truck, car would turn over but no spark, plenty of fuel, all connections secure.

I am thinking that I might have burned up points. They look a little discolored, and I did install a tach, so maybe I shorted a wire, or left the key too long in the ignition position.

I perhaps have two problems going on here, or a single problem that coincided with me replacing that wire, but honestly, when I placed the original wire back on and it worked, that was the first thing I figured, that the wire was causing the problem!

I can't for the life of me figure out why they car wouldn't start, but then start once I put that twisted up wire back in there, and now, dead, even with a charged battery.

I am thinking new resistor, points and condenser once I double-check all wires. Any other suggestions guys? Sorry this one is so confusing, or getting too long to read, but I feel like I need advice on this one.

I'm having a little trouble with understanding all the posts.

If the points (especially the metal arm near the contact) looks discolored from heat; then it sounds like there is no resistor working when the key is left ON.??

Doc here,

Do you have SPARK???

Check the coil. With all wires removed, get your DVOM out, set to R X 1, Calibrated to "000", measure the primary, it should read LESS than an ohm, but MORE than "000"..if not toss it, it's bad.

NEXT, Test the secondary, Set your scale to R X 20K or higher. It should read between 10,000 and 11,000 Ohms, if not, toss it, it's bad..



If it has been running any length of time without a proper ballast, it has probably burned out.

Be sure the "I" and "S" terminals are properly connected to the right terminals, without the "I" terminal, it has little or no spark while cranking.



Are the points opening and closing? not stuck open or shorted closed? Gap should be around 17 thousands.

Turn the key on, with an insulated screwdriver open and close them, it should have a nice BLUE spark..If not replace the wire between the points and the coil -. Disconnect the TACH while testing, If it is bad, it can kill spark.

Doc

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Doc, the reason I mentioned discolored points, is that I've had cars that didn't have a resistor ( or had an unresisted coil on a car that supposed to have one), and those cars either would not start or had intermittant spark at the points. Some would run, but break up real bad off idle or slight load. Even if you filed them or whatever, the overheat did something to the contacts.

Doc, thanks a bunch for the illustrations and the guidance there. I will definitely be getting to it tomorrow. Got too frustrated, showered up and went out for burritos and beer.

I have a cheap Cen-Tech digital multimeter, so I hope to be able to check the coil as you describe. I didn't go far enough today to check for spark between the points and everthing, but will tomorrow definitely. Also, I ordered a ballast resistor from the parts store, I have spare points and condenser, and will get the battery charged or use the one from my truck.

As for the "S" and "I" terminals, the ring terminals on those were also quite frayed, so I changed them out. Car started fine after changing each one (it was the solenoid, so I was worried about messing with them), in fact a couple of times. But, after reading this post, I went out and the "I" terminal was a little loose-- the nut could be tightened by finger.

F&J, the points are a little worn, but not as bad as I first thought they were. Metal arm not discolored, but neither points nor the arm look "new."

Thanks a lot guys, Doc especially. BTW, what year 'Vettes are you doctoring? My dad is rebuilding his '67 finally. He's the original owner. I'm going to be the second

Doc here,

F&J,

Yeah, that is the FIRST sign of running without a Ballast resistor, the points burn right out..you may replace 2 or 3 Sets in a month..But the real damage is done to the coil..

The voltage across the primary under load (points closed) Should be between 6 to 9 volts..and rise to 13.95 or 14.4 unloaded..(points open) the windings aren't made to take the abuse for very long without a ballast resistor.



redneckprofessor:

Check that spark in the am..and the coil too..It may be bad OR right on the edge..ALSO be sure you have 12 volts (or there abouts) on the Coil + while cranking..If it is below 9 volts you have Cold start problems.

And..ANY year Vette..although I HATE the new ones..electronic NIGHTMARES..Even GM is still working out the bugs..Very quietly. 69 and down are My favorites..and are Great head turners..Bare bones "olde School" , muscle..after that Fuel prices and insurance took all the "Fun" outta it...

Enjoy the Burritos and adult beverages!

Doc

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My stock Galaxy uses a resistor wire from the ignition terminal on the ignition switch to the firewall connector, inside the cab, out the firewall, then a stranded wire to the coil + post. This gives the system the resisted voltage to run the engine with the key in the regular run position.

There is also an I wire from the solenoid to the coil + terminal, a starting bypass. It supplies a full battery voltage past the resistor for starting only. This wire meets the ignition wire at the curve of the loom where they both meet at the firewall, and appears to be one wire from there to the coil + post.

That I wire is also in position with a porcelain ballast resistor, and would be connected on the coil side of the wire from the resistor to the + post on the coil. This way, the bypass voltage gets past the resistor for full voltage start for the ignition system. Once that I wire is stopped at the solenoid when the key is returned to run, the resisted voltage is then supplied to the coil + post.

If that I wire isn't in place on either the I post or coil + post, the engine will not start when it is cranked over with the key.

I'd suggest taking a voltage reading at the coil + post when the engine is cranked over with the key. If there isn't voltage, you might try a jumper wire from the I post on the solenoid to the + post on the coil.

My solenoid has I and S on it, no R. I understand them to be S, start for starter motor to engage the starter motor through the solenoid, I, to be the bypass for coil full battery volts for/on start.

You should see full volts at the coil + post when the starter is engaged, resisted volts when the engine is running.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Milton

Yeah, Milton, that gives me another thing to check out, definitely. Thanks for the info and explanation.

What year is your Galaxie? Just wondering because there may be some changes I can account for if my system is different. Also, the previous owner put in a 302 engine from a '68 Fairlane, so that accounts for even more differences. Add to that the fact that the previous owner also fixed whatever needed to be fixed just enough so it could run, and there you see the mess I just might have.

Also, how many and what kind of wires do you have connected to your coil (+) post? Is that one ignition from the key switch, and then one jumper coming from the solenoid I terminal?

Thanks again for the details of your Gal!

Mine is a 1966 427 transplant.

If we were to look backwards from the coil + post, the regular stranded wire would go back to the firewall area, and split into two wires.

One would go to the firewall connector, and into the cab, through the resistor wire (which is a silver stranded wire), to the ignition switch, IGNITION post on the switch.

The other side of the wire from the junction is a regular stranded wire, to the I post on the solenoid.

The differences for start and run from engine to engine aren't different, it is only when Ford moved the I wire from the solenoid to the IGN 2 post on the ignition switch, under the dashboard, and I think that was late 1967 or so. To be more confusing, Ford used early I post solenoids with the later systems for a time, without a wire connected to it, as that wire had been moved to the rear of the later ignition switch.

Hope this isn't too confusing.

Regards,

Milton

Doc here,

66 to 68 Ford Galaxy Start diagram..



Follow it, and you should have no problems , unless the wire colors have been molested from stock.

Doc

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This wire is the problem. Make sure you are getting BAT VOLT through it at START.

Alright, Doc, help me explain this one.

Put my charged battery from my truck in. Checked the wires at the solenoid terminals. One was loose, both were tightened. Check the twisted together wires at both the alternator and the solenoid, both were twisted together well. Start the car. It immediately comes to life, running like a top.

Stop the car, remove the wire between the resistor and the distributor, replace it with a 12 gauge wire. Go to start it. Won't even turn over. Clicks a couple of times, but will not engage the starter.

I replace the twisted together wire, this time I crimp it into one piece with a connecter. I go to start it. It turns over and purrs like a kitten.

I also go ahead and take off the twisted on end of the alternator wire, put on a ring terminal, tighten it onto the back of the alternator, go to start it, turns over and purrs like a kitten again.

I'm telling you, that wire is magic, or the car is possessed. I switched out batteries, putting the dead one back in the Galaxie, jump it off my truck, and now the battery is fully charged and will start with no hesitation.

Do you have ANY ideas why that wire between the distributor and resistor would affect the system that much, and in that way? Bad coil? Bad resistor? I'm stumped, but I'm also glad the car's running again. I did check the wire to the alternator, but could it have been good, then vibrated bad, and then when I put the correct ring terminal on it, it is now fixed?

BTW, thanks so much for all the help and concern, and the diagrams and pics. You have no idea how much I appreciate it!

Also, Doc, I checked the coil with my digital meter, but I'm not sure that I am doing it right. When I checked the primary, I set the meter on the lowest Ohm setting, which says "200." Again, this is that cheaper Cen-Tech one. Primary numbers were 1.6 to 1.7, and when I tested the secondary, it was set on "20k" on my meter. The numbers were 9.63, but am I doing this right? If those numbers show that the coil is bad, could that and a bad resistor make the wire control the system that much? I'm getting a new resistor, should I also replace the coil?