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Old 08-17-2005, 10:58 PM
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question about respirators?

This is a quote from chevelletech -

Quote:
I am a body shop manager at a GMC dealership. It is my understanding that respirators only stop particulates and will not stop isocyanates, period. The only way to stop isocyanates is to use a supplied air system. You absorb isocyanates through your mouth, nose, eyes and skin. All hardeners, catalysts and reactive reducers contain isocyanates. All of the painters that have worked for me are iso sensitive to some degree. It is irreversible. Simply stopping use of these chemicals does not clear your system. I now require all of my painters to wear a full suit, nitrile gloves, head sock and use a supplied air respirator with o2 monitoring. This is why we get the big bucks for our paint jobs. Cheap paint jobs are performed by cheap painters who are either not concerned about their health or are ignorant of the facts. My painters are my friends and I hope to know them for many years. I'll spend whatever it takes to make sure they're healthy. I myself am iso senstive from painting sunfire urethane many years ago. Like imron, it's loaded with iso's. I get a reaction from simply walking into the booth after the painting is finished. I've even gotten a reaction from wet sanding the finish days later. If you care about your health, don't spray paint of any kind unless you have a supplied air system. Those cheap 3M masks just don't work. We use them for sanding.

I was under the impression that the resperators stopped ISO's with the proper filter's. Am I wrong? This sounds like they are saying that only a fresh air system will stop ISO's. Whats right?

Also, does the 3m respiratoe that uses the carbon filters and the replacable filter have a life span of the carbon filter, it is non-replacable, you just change the 1st filter.?

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Old 08-17-2005, 11:02 PM
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That quote is correct. Respirator is not enough.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:07 PM
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I'm realy concern about this and by following treads like this I'm affraid but I think you r wrong. Only respirators for isos looks like fresh air systems.
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Old 08-17-2005, 11:22 PM
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respirators with the proper filters do provide protection against iso's but your eyes,ears and any other exposed skin areas will absorb them into your body. It makes good sense for somebody doing this for a living to have that level of protection. For a one time paint job using as much protection as possible also makes sense. Painters suit, gloves, using a respirator that is properly cleaned and stored after each use and using while mixing the paint as well as spraying can minimize the risk but definitely can still bite you.Everybody has a different tolerance to chemicals alcohol and the like, knowing if you are a person who has a sensitivity to chemicals might be something to consider. If you get whoozy and nauseated when the wife has a chemical cloud brewing in the house from the cleaning supplies you may want to think twice...just my two bits/half
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Old 08-18-2005, 01:08 AM
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I've painted for years with only a charcoal respirator, and so far don't really notice any effects, but met a couple painter that were sensitized and couldn't go near them anymore. One who was the father of an old boss was at deaths door with a nervous system all messed up. Never heard what happened to him. I would love to have had a shop owner like him who cares about their painters health like he obviously does. Every place I've worked when painting only supplied a charcoal respirator. Maybe the place pays pretty good too, and should find out where they are located. Painting a real lot without the best saftey equiptment and decent pay isn't worth it in my opinion.
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Old 08-18-2005, 05:26 AM
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Well, its not the reaction to the chemicals that bothers me, its the long term effect cause if the resperators don't provide proper protection, then you are brething in those chemicals every time you paint something. Lung cancer comes to mind when I think about ISO's being breathed in. Here is a link to the whole discussion if anyone want to take a look -

http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/for...3;t=008203;p=0

It kinda makes you want to know if you have the proper protection. The price of the fresh air systems is very costly if your just painting a car or two.
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:27 AM
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or Jeff, or Doc, or...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by firechicken383
The price of the fresh air systems is very costly if your just painting a car or two.
Yeah, but whats the cost of a set of NOS lungs? I haven't seen those puppies on EBAY yet! Russian Roulette with 3 chambers loaded..
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:33 AM
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I understand your position, as I stated they do make cartridges for the respirators that are for vapors. It's the guy wearing only a respirator thinking he is perfectly safe as the chemicals are being absorbed thru his eyes ,ears and ANY other exposed area that I was trying to enlighten. Minimizing your exposure for one or two paint jobs a year as a hobbyist by using your head and a little extra protection that you might not normally consider just may save your life....hate to not be able to spoil grandchildren someday!!
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:35 AM
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Pardon my ignorance -

Do primers (epoxy etc) have the same issues here? I wasn't planning on doing the BC/CC on my car, but was planning on doing all the priming as I finished up the panels. Maybe a fresh air system is in order...
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Old 08-18-2005, 09:01 AM
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Iso's are bad new's for sure and ANY product that use's a hardner contains them.
They are at their most dangerous right out of their container. Think muratic acid right from the jug and after it's mixed with water is less potent but still bad new's.Once mixed,they are less concentrated but still a hazard.

I use the charcoal filters and change them as often as needed, Usually after EACH complete job or weekly doing small stuff as the clear will harden in the filter and block it off causing vapors to be pulled around the mask/face area.
Having ANY facial hair in this area will allow fumes to slip into the mask,as they allow vapors to pass between the hair and mask.

As my painting projects increase,I will be getting a fresh air system of some sort,as I'm concerned about future health problem's too. Right now,I'm fairly confident that with my Tyvec suite,sock,respirator,glasses, I'll survive till I'm too old to paint. I also seem to have a high tolerance for chemicals so that should be in my favor. Never know for sure I guess,but at least I'm enjoying my hazard. Something's got to kill ya and I'd rather have a bunch of nice paint work for people to see than an ashtray full of butt's.

(No offense to smokers intended)
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Old 08-18-2005, 07:07 PM
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Firechicken,
the reason the label on the respirators say not iso safe is not because they dont protect you at all, they say it because of the human factor.

When used 100% correctly they work! Used in a wrong manner and they dont work. Small things like facial hair, poor fitment, bad filters that look good yet etc, all play into effect here.

They label them not Iso safe because of the differences in the people who use them. Id be willing to bet that 90% of the painters out there use and abuse those masks. Am sure those overpaid lawyers made sure those labels read NOT ISO SAFE because of that reason, in this day and age of sue happy people.

Ive done research and even talked to the 3M national saftey rep on the phone about resipirators. Flat out, when used right they work, when used wrong they dont.

If you change out the filters every 8hrs of usage time the filters will provide protection. The key to making those filters last is to seal them up in ziplock bags. Once you open the filters and expose them to the surrounding air their lifeline starts counting down.
So once you are done spraying remove the filters from the mask and seal them up in a air tight bag. Also separate the white prefilter from the charcoal filter. That way the two filters are not absorbing the chemicals from each other.
If you open up the mask and and toss it off to the corner unprotected the filters will soon become junk by the next day, because they are absorbing/exposed the air.

Remove the filters from the mask and separate them in separate air tight bags. Once you have reached that 8hrs of exposure time throw them out.
If you wait till you can smell the paint then its WAY PAST DUE!!!!!

having the proper fit on your face is also very important. You want the strap that goes on top of your head to be on top of the head. If you have it too far back or too far forward you lessen the seal. Sitting directly on the top provides the best seal. Another factor is too tight of a fit. Thinking that the tighter the better is WRONG! You want a snug fit, a tight fit will crush the mask and not create the proper seal.

In general any product that contains a hardener is a ISO product but many paint manufactures are now producing Iso FREE primers, PPG's NCP272 comes to mind.

As mentioned before the BIGGEST I repeat the BIGGEST area for Iso's to enter the body is your eyes. Eye protection is every important, as Iso's love moist areas and its a direct port into your blood stream.

If you cant afford a fresh air unit like many and most home hobbyist I strongly suggest a full face mask instead of the common half mask. The full face mask provides eye, nose and mouth protection as it covers the full face hence the name.
The half mask protects just the mouth and nose. A 3M full face mask will cost about 120 bucks. A very small price to pay for the added protection. Another bonus about the full face is that it provides, IMO, a better seal around the mouth.

IMO the BEST half masks are from 3M. 3M makes three styles. They make a cheap throw away mask. They make a mask that has changable filters, but yet uses the same plastic housing as the throw out model. The third and best is the PRO model. Its a totally different style of mask all together. The plastic housing and rubber are much much more mold able to the users face. It conforms to your face better as the plastic is softer and made from surgical type rubber and plastic.
I dont have the part numbers on me but the cheap throw away and the other model are GREY in color. The PRO model is DARK BLUE in color and only the PRO model.
So if you go to your paint supplier and ask to see the 3M book or catalog, look in the respirator section till you find a DARK BLUE mask, thats the BEST half mask made IMO.

Coming from someone WHO has learned from their stupidity, life is way too short and priceless just to save a few bucks...Eric

Last edited by sevt_chevelle; 08-18-2005 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:41 PM
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There are safety courses and fit test procedures for any type of respirator. Not being properly fit and tested for leakage is a recipe for disaster. Fortunately I work for a Major Railroad that provides this testing along with proper filters and training so I feel Pretty lucky to have this extra knowledge. Most people that just go down to the HF and buy the 5.95 respirator thinking that he is doing the right thing is the one that it hurts. Lots of info on the internet about it. Check it out might be enlightening!!!!
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Old 08-18-2005, 08:58 PM
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respirators

this was a great read , I am at this very time researching the respirator options, and have made up my mind that 3M will be the brand and looks like the full face model will be my choice . Some say it is a good choice for me because I am ugly , I am not ugly but am looking more and more like a prune as the clock ticks. thanks for the information below.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:42 PM
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The respirators do in fact provide protection against ISO's. The actual problem(s), in addition to the above, entrance through eyes, poor fitment, facial hair, poor quality mask, old filters, etc, is that the ISO's are odorless, and the filters don't have any way of alerting the wearer that they are expired. Therefore, you could have started a painting project with a properly fitting mask, good cartridges, and at the end of the day inhaled ISO's without even knowing. Fresh air systems are not as expensive as people think. When you consider that most of us (hobbyists) have $1,000's in hand tools, plus rollaways, compressor(s) and spray gun(s), for less that $400 you can get a fresh air system with a hood. Go to www.autobodystore.com and check out the Hobbyair & Neoterik systems. I personally have the Neoterik system and it works great. I sprayed with respirators up until last year when I got the unit. I felt like crap for a few days after every spraying, no more. If you save thousands of dollars by spraying your own car, use some of those savings to get yourself a fresh air system.
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:33 PM
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Great link good info thanks!!!
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