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Old 07-08-2012, 09:17 PM
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Question on Edelbrock RPM Intakes

I am in the process of making some changes to my car and need some info on an Edelbrock RPM intake.
First some background. In addition to a 3.73 rear axle, I am changing the cam on advise of some very learned people from this forum. The cam will be a short duration cam with roughly the following specs 213/219 duration, 450/468 lift and 112 LSA probably this one:

Lunati 60101 - Lunati Voodoo Camshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

This is a cam that's designed to produce more torque and HP at the lower end of the RPM range (1000 to 5500 RPM). My car is a small displacement SBC that will be well within these RPM ranges.

In addition I am changing the heads; I am considering different heads including the Edelbrock E-Tec heads (which I believe are similar to vortec type heads). Vortec style heads do not have heat crossovers and unfortunately in my colder climate that would cause a problem with fuel pooling. I experienced this problem first hand (in my current set-up) when I used an Air Gap intake that had no heat-crossover. The problem was immediately resolved when I switched to a comparable intake that had the heat cross over.
So whats the question?
Potentially, I want to use the Edelbrock Performer Vortec intake 7116 because it has a coolant passage under the carb. I will run the heater hoses through this passage and use the engine coolant itself to heat the bottom of the intake directly under the carb. The problem is, the RPM intake is rated for higher RPMs. 1500 to 6000 RPM. My engine will be set up for the lower range of the RPMs (idle to 5500). Will using the Perfromer RPM be a problem in my set up?

The Edelbrock Perfromer RPM is the only vortec-style intake I can find that has ability to pass coolant under the carb base. Are there any other vortec style intakes that have heat crossovers..exhaust or coolant?

Thanks!
Vic

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Old 07-08-2012, 09:26 PM
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It will work, though just not optimally. I would use a little bigger can in the 220 intake and 230 exhaust range. But thats just me.



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Old 07-08-2012, 09:42 PM
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Greg, when you say not optimally, do you mean it won't idle properly or cause driveability issues, or do you mean it is not being deployed as it was intended..i.e an overkill?

WRT the cam, I'm still pondering but trying to follow the guidlines from another thread where the shorter duration was recommended. What I found is that cams with the duration that you would use are rated for more HP and torque in the midrange. Am I mistaken? Just trying to understand why you would use the 220 in and 230 ex in favour of the shoter duration ones.

Thanks,

Vic
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:54 PM
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curious

sorry no help on the intake:
are you using an overdrive transmission? 373 is a lot of gear for a low RPM engine
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:57 PM
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Yes, Vinnie.
A 700r4 with a lock up.

Vic
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:02 PM
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IMO, and depending on things like vehicle weight and torque converter stall speed (if A/T) the combination of your lower gears and dual-plane intake should be fairly forgiving.

Running a slightly higher duration cam just moves your torque range up a few hundred RPM in order to match the intake.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:11 PM
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RS Camaro?

love those cars! 2 of my buddys came out from Ontario to BC back in the 70s.The 3 of us had similar Cars to yours.I wonder if you dare drive your car in the winter?What hood are you using?Do you ever get carb icing? The cam you are talking about is small but it will work nicely if HP is not important.
Is your car a mono leaf car?are the sub frames tied?sorry about all the questions,my Camaro was stolen and I like to remember those beasts
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:15 PM
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Plumbing the manifold for hot water heat will work.
( its not as fast as exhaust heat but does warm the manifold for winter driving and can be controlld with a water valve. Pretty simple.

If haveing a exhaust heated plenum is what you want you can use a different head than a vortec head that will work very well.
I would use a RPM style manifold, reguardless. (Not air gap)

The edelbrock performer cylinder head has a heat riser.
Your cam choice is just right. (optional) for max perf use a 1.6 rocker on the intake side only.
RPM intake, 750 carb. Don;t be a wimp, get 4.10's for this car. The OD gears cuts that down drasticly. (2.87:1 in OD)
Like I said this car needs 4.30 gears. (based on 27" tires) Again OD cuts that down a lot. 30%.

This engine with this mild Lunati voodoo cam will rev to 6000rpm easily with good heads and the RPM manifold.
lots of smooth torque. Do not over cam. Do not wimp on the gears or converter stall.
a 3200 stall w lock up is sweet.
This 327 camaro will go like hell and cruise effortlessly on the HYWAY w 4.10-4.30 gears and OD.
You do not want to cruise at less than 2000 rpm on the hiway with this motor in OD.
Its not a "stock motor" with a tiny stock short duration cam.

Last edited by F-BIRD'88; 07-08-2012 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadmanof50s View Post
Greg, when you say not optimally, do you mean it won't idle properly or cause driveability issues, or do you mean it is not being deployed as it was intended..i.e an overkill?

WRT the cam, I'm still pondering but trying to follow the guidlines from another thread where the shorter duration was recommended. What I found is that cams with the duration that you would use are rated for more HP and torque in the midrange. Am I mistaken? Just trying to understand why you would use the 220 in and 230 ex in favour of the shoter duration ones.

Thanks,

Vic

All I meant is that the intake and cam are optimally matched. This will not cause any major streetability issues at all. But, your manifold has an RPM range of 1500 to 6500. Your cam is 1000 to 5500. It would make more sense to use the performer manifold with that cam or use a cam sporting a power band beginning about 500 rpm later. Thats why I would use a slightly bigger cam that would match the RPM manifold and still give great streetability.
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:28 PM
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Thanks Vinnie.
No, I don't dare to drive the cars in the snow. (The Cadie has never seen rain let alone snow...:-)) . We don't get the long snowy winters in Southern Ontario anymore but we do get the cold days. And I found that the fuel condensation will happen even when the temp is high as 50F.

I have done a conversion to mult-leaf using the Detroit Speed kit and I have added the Hotchkiss Frame connectors. Both have improved the stability and handling of the car.

WRT to the cam. I am so confused. according to the description, the Voodo cam reads as follows and the sepcs are inline with what was recommended in an earlier thread:
Hydraulic. Best mild performance cam. Works excellent in TPI fuel injection applications. Makes approximately 19 vacuum at idle. Great for performance oriented marine applications and heavy towing applications. Perfect Street Rod cam. Has slightly noticeable idle, works with stock converter, A/C.
•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/219
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.468
•LSA/ICL: 112/108
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1000-5500
•Includes: Cam Only


But maybe the Lunati 60102 would be better suited as it is closer to the duration numbers that Greg would have used and the RPM range is 1400 to 5800.

(Clearly I don't have a great understanding of how cams interact. I wish I did.)

Thanks again, Vinnie.

Vic
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:29 PM
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Thanks Greg.
Thats is now clear.

Vic
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:45 PM
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Cam choice

Vic,with a cam choice,especially if you do not race,is better too small than too big.We are only talking a slight change in duration.The lobe displacement angle and intake lobe centre line are only really truly understood by engineers and race engine master builders. Most of us understand that more duration "usually" means higher RPM.wide displacement angles have smoother idle.shorter displacement angles have more overlap so choppy idle.Lower number intake centre line is usually a lower RPM cam( advancing a cam brings the RPM range lower but loses top end}.By the time you do the math of all the variables you will be so confused you will buy an electric car.

thats why the cam guys ask so many questions about your car before selling ,and they are probably guessing

If you ever drive out to BC,contact me.Ill look through my old junk and see if I have any items for your car
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:46 PM
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Thanks F-Bird.
Trying hard to follow your advice.
I'm going to start with the 3.73. Ordered them already..but I solomly promise that if they are not enough, will change them to 4.11 (that's what's available). Besides it's a much easier change than the cam, heads and intake.

You call it whimping out... I call it baby steps...;-)

Vic
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Old 07-08-2012, 10:47 PM
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Plumbing the manifold for hot water heat will work.
( its not as fast as exhaust heat but does warm the manifold for winter driving and can be controlld with a water valve. Pretty simple.

If haveing a exhaust heated plenum is what you want you can use a different head than a vortec head that will work very well.
I would use a RPM style manifold, reguardless. (Not air gap)

The edelbrock performer cylinder head has a heat riser.
Your cam choice is just right. (optional) for max perf use a 1.6 rocker on the intake side only.
RPM intake, 750 carb. Don;t be a wimp, get 4.10's for this car. The OD gears cuts that down drasticly. (2.87:1 in OD)
Like I said this car needs 4.30 gears. (based on 27" tires) Again OD cuts that down a lot. 30%.

This engine with this mild Lunati voodoo cam will rev to 6000rpm easily with good heads and the RPM manifold.
lots of smooth torque. Do not over cam. Do not wimp on the gears or converter stall.
a 3200 stall w lock up is sweet.
This 327 camaro will go like hell and cruise effortlessly on the HYWAY w 4.10-4.30 gears and OD.
You do not want to cruise at less than 2000 rpm on the hiway with this motor in OD.
Its not a "stock motor" with a tiny stock short duration cam.

What happened to the AFR 180 eliminators. The head has a exhaust heat riser.
Your 291 heads can be improved a ton with correct porting. They make very good power and torque when done right.
And they have a heat riser passage. I would use a 1.94 x 1.60 manley valve set good 3 angle or radius valve job and Fully port them to a felrpo 1205 gasket size. (just right for the RPM manifold) They will flow well over 240cfm with lots of port velocity.
They are a whole different head, once tweeked correctly. Unless they are cracked etc I would consider using them.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:00 PM
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You need to "blueprint" the real measured compression ratio on this engine.
Its critical to making power and torque.
The details matter.
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