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Old 11-26-2009, 01:46 PM
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question for experienced painters...

i have a dilemma...I've been spraying clear with my iwata 1.4 lph-400 since i began this trade...The gun is awesome and quite frankly, this is the gun to use for the smoothest and best finish...I'm a production painter and although we all want the best finish, the iwata is harder to be consistent...I tend to make a lot of runs and sags with the iwata (never bad enough to redo the job though) and especially areas that have no base...I just think it atomizes too much I've used my co-workers sata nr3000 1.3 to spray ppg clear and not only does it come out nice every time, i'm in and out of the booth in 20% less time...So I'm debating whether or not just stick to what i know, or jump ship and try something new? Have any of you ever sprayed clear with the nr2000 or nr3000? I've tried the rp2000 a long time ago and didn't use it enough to get a good feel for it...is the rp3000 even better than the nr3000 when spraying clear? And for you iwata guys, which sprays clear better, the w400 or the lph400? and I'm looking for a good primer gun...been leaning towards the lph440...thanks...

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Old 11-27-2009, 10:29 AM
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My Iwata LPH400 is the best clear gun I've used so far, but it is a slow gun.
I don't do "all overs", I just do small collision repair and usually not
painting more than a couple panels at a time, so the Iwata is perfect for me.
If I did complete paint jobs, I'd get a Sata.

I also don't use the Iwata for base, it tends to stripe easily.
I can adjust and make it work, but my other gun does base so much easier
I just use the Iwata for clear.
You can crank the Iwata up to 20 to 25 psi and get it to do better and
faster but some say it creates more urethane wave doing that.
It definetly makes a lot more clouds.
I always tell people that the gun that will work best for you is the
one you get the most experience with.
If you find one that works good for you-stick with it, the more you
use it the better it will do for you.
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Old 11-27-2009, 08:06 PM
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While there are many different guns to pick from to spray clear or primer, there are at least as many variables in how to use each of them. I think you answered your question in the fact the your friends gun seems to work very well for how you spray. As my daddy taught me "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". In other words get the same gun that your friend uses and set it up exactly like he has his set-up.
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Old 11-27-2009, 11:52 PM
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My preference is the Sata RP3000, 1.3 tip. That Iwata W400 is what I use for waterborne base coat...never used it for clear however.

Im not experienced, but I have to wonder something. There has to be a variable you are not accounting for when you are spraying. If sometimes your current gun sprays great, and other times it puts it on heavy that (to me) tells me you are not adjusting your spraying technique or gun set up.

What pressure are you spraying at? Try turning it up a few pounds if you are finding it is putting it on too heavy?
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Old 11-28-2009, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMM
My preference is the Sata RP3000, 1.3 tip. That Iwata W400 is what I use for waterborne base coat...never used it for clear however.

Im not experienced, but I have to wonder something. There has to be a variable you are not accounting for when you are spraying. If sometimes your current gun sprays great, and other times it puts it on heavy that (to me) tells me you are not adjusting your spraying technique or gun set up.

What pressure are you spraying at? Try turning it up a few pounds if you are finding it is putting it on too heavy?
our shop requires us to use iwata basecoat guns to spray waterbourne ppg...the ppg spray outs are shot with iwata guns are 12psi for drop coat...Otherwise its 20psi...it obviously won't matter on solid colors or metallics that have a lot of dark pigments in them...if the 12psi drop coat is not applied, the color will look almost night and day different than the spray out...i could go on and on but i won't...ppg has a really good waterbourne line...covers like **** but nothing a little ground coat can't solve...

my technique is way different than the iwata...first off, i shoot the iwata at about 24-26 psi, depending what temp i set the booth at among other things...i also have the fan almost cut in half (about 2 full rotations from full narrow)...i can't get anything wet enough when i have the fan full open...Its designed for a lot more of a finesse painter...a painter who has a nice overlap and consistently knows where they are on a panel...If i was shooting a complete, i'd definitely bust out the iwata...the iwata rep once told me that the w400 is a better clear gun...never got around to trying it out though...

i think the sata is almost an error proof gun...you'd really have to fall asleep on a panel to run it...on average it has a little bit more orange peel effect but sometimes that is the finish you're looking for to match oem paint jobs...Not to say that i have layed this thing out like glass on bumpers and flat panels...usually the American cars have more orange peel that high end manufacturers...I almost feel like i really should be shooting with the sata RP and not the NR...i don't see how the rp can be much better than spraying the nr...

I'm not worried about overspray or things like that...although the sata leaves way more of a cloud than the iwata...

the dilemma continues...
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:04 AM
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It sounds like your Iwata has lived a good life...personaly I'd rebuild it...but Sata's are nice too....I like my Sata a little better because of the feel but I use both and like both so I'd rebuild it AND get that Sata you like...you cant go wrong....
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vip-ucf
our shop requires us to use iwata basecoat guns to spray waterbourne ppg...the ppg spray outs are shot with iwata guns are 12psi for drop coat...Otherwise its 20psi...it obviously won't matter on solid colors or metallics that have a lot of dark pigments in them...if the 12psi drop coat is not applied, the color will look almost night and day different than the spray out...i could go on and on but i won't...ppg has a really good waterbourne line...covers like **** but nothing a little ground coat can't solve...

my technique is way different than the iwata...first off, i shoot the iwata at about 24-26 psi, depending what temp i set the booth at among other things...i also have the fan almost cut in half (about 2 full rotations from full narrow)...i can't get anything wet enough when i have the fan full open...Its designed for a lot more of a finesse painter...a painter who has a nice overlap and consistently knows where they are on a panel...If i was shooting a complete, i'd definitely bust out the iwata...the iwata rep once told me that the w400 is a better clear gun...never got around to trying it out though...

i think the sata is almost an error proof gun...you'd really have to fall asleep on a panel to run it...on average it has a little bit more orange peel effect but sometimes that is the finish you're looking for to match oem paint jobs...Not to say that i have layed this thing out like glass on bumpers and flat panels...usually the American cars have more orange peel that high end manufacturers...I almost feel like i really should be shooting with the sata RP and not the NR...i don't see how the rp can be much better than spraying the nr...

I'm not worried about overspray or things like that...although the sata leaves way more of a cloud than the iwata...

the dilemma continues...
Totally. I find PPG's waterborne decks are spot on in terms of colour accuracy. Really makes colour matching easy. I find if I turn the pressure down just a tiny bit on my last coat of clear with the Sata, it lays it down very nice. Mind you, its physically impossible to have NO orange peel at all with Urethane clears.

What do you use for clear on production work? We use 4000 Velocity clear, and while it tends to match in texture pretty well, I don't like the way it looks. Just something about it seems....off to me.
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMM
Totally. I find PPG's waterborne decks are spot on in terms of colour accuracy. Really makes colour matching easy. I find if I turn the pressure down just a tiny bit on my last coat of clear with the Sata, it lays it down very nice. Mind you, its physically impossible to have NO orange peel at all with Urethane clears.

What do you use for clear on production work? We use 4000 Velocity clear, and while it tends to match in texture pretty well, I don't like the way it looks. Just something about it seems....off to me.

we use 8188 with all the hardeners and slow reducer...substrate temperature is really crucial as well...what temp are you basing at? I fount that *78 works well on hard to blend colors...*82 to rush a little...i'll crank it up to *90 on solid whites or blacks...i reduce all my paint 20%...10% on whites and some tri-coats in order to cut from 5 coats of pearl down to 3.5 coats...

the 8188 is definitely a spray how you want it to look clear...theres not a lot of flow in it...overlap is crucial on this clear...and if you bake it too soon, it tends to pinch up...its suppose to be a high build clear but its pretty thin...i really do like it though...

does anyone really shoot thier iwata clear gun at the recommended 18psi or whatever it is? i have a hard time keeping it down to 22psi...

with the sata, i feel like i have a blow gun in my hand...
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Old 11-30-2009, 11:55 AM
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Something to consider with an Iwata is air cfm. I got an air cap guage for my LPH400-LV and after setting it at 18 with the trigger at full pull,found I was actually only getting 8 @ the cap.I run 20 on the guage to have my 10@ the cap which made a big difference.I use the Devilbliss bulb filter AT the gun which was cutting my cfm and the cap guage showed me "what" my "problem" was as I always had it cranked to 22-25 for clear. I run at 20 now which in reality,is the "required" 18.SO, Just because your setting it at the "recommended" does not mean it's "right".
Also,I use the LVB Purple cap for my base work and the LV cap for clear.
I have an LVX cap as well but have not had time to work with it.
Another "consideration" is,You have a 1.4 in the Iwata but your friends Sata is a 1.3,THis can make a real difference in how a gun sprays.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vip-ucf
we use 8188 with all the hardeners and slow reducer...substrate temperature is really crucial as well...what temp are you basing at? I fount that *78 works well on hard to blend colors...*82 to rush a little...i'll crank it up to *90 on solid whites or blacks...i reduce all my paint 20%...10% on whites and some tri-coats in order to cut from 5 coats of pearl down to 3.5 coats...

the 8188 is definitely a spray how you want it to look clear...theres not a lot of flow in it...overlap is crucial on this clear...and if you bake it too soon, it tends to pinch up...its suppose to be a high build clear but its pretty thin...i really do like it though...

does anyone really shoot thier iwata clear gun at the recommended 18psi or whatever it is? i have a hard time keeping it down to 22psi...

with the sata, i feel like i have a blow gun in my hand...
I usually have the booth set to 72*. Mind you, our boss likes to turn the heat right off at night, so as it gets colder the car is usually colder than ideal when it gets sprayed.

Im with you on the reduction, although we reduce 30% on our high-pearl colours. 20 on everything else, and as you say, 10 on a solid white or black.

I've never used 8188 clear. We are using ShopLine J620 or 630 latley too.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMM
I usually have the booth set to 72*. Mind you, our boss likes to turn the heat right off at night, so as it gets colder the car is usually colder than ideal when it gets sprayed.

Im with you on the reduction, although we reduce 30% on our high-pearl colours. 20 on everything else, and as you say, 10 on a solid white or black.

I've never used 8188 clear. We are using ShopLine J620 or 630 latley too.
PPG just brought us their new clear...its a double coat type clear...should be good for production but i'm worried about how receptive it is to solvent popping and/or runs...
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Old 12-01-2009, 07:42 AM
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What is the clear number? PPG's production clears are meant for fast turn over and IMO are not as durable as some of PPG's other clears like DCU2002. When I was painting my 34 the local PPG rep recommended 3000. I was advised by a well respected painter to not use it as it was a production clear. I was instead advised to use DCU2002 as it was more durable and has far greater depth than 3000. I am very pleased on how it turned out

Vince
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Old 12-01-2009, 09:59 PM
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2002 Clear is wicked stuff.

As for those production clears and solvent pop...my understanding is the solvents (and lack of added reducers alot of the time) allow the product to flash off SO quickly its damn near impossible to get.

However, I have had 4000Velocity die-back on me a couple times, but that was in the summer time when its 90-100* in the booth, using mid-temp hardner and a fast reducer. Sometimes I wonder.
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