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Old 04-12-2005, 04:17 AM
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Question for the paint experts...Barry, Martin...

This concerns POR15 and similiar products. On more and more sites I am reading that this is the miracle cure of all cures. Could you set people straight once and for all. And I know it has been brought up in the past but I have a different insight to it. You will hear about someone with rust on their frame and what to do. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon and shouts "POR15 and you'll never have to worry about it again" or "I have rust showing on my lower fender, what can I do for the time being" Here comes the bandwagon again. The I read the other day in one of Bulls threads..."Pinholes in floorboards".
My question or thought is this...POR15 is not an acid so it will not eat the rust away. What it does is encapsulates it so that is seals it from outside conditions hence stopping it from progressing further. I know that it says it converts rust to become somewhat of a bonding agent. But what about areas of heavier rust? To me the POR15 is a heavy enough base that it takes a heavily rusted area, flows out, and makes things look more pleasing than they actually are. I would also think that one pinhole in a frame, floorpan, etc, would also allow things to work from the bottom side outwards, allowing the rust to still eat away and eventually allowing the POR15 to loosen it's grip on whatever surface it has. It may still be attached to the rust, but the rust will detach from the base metal. It is tough stuff, I grant it that but is it really the miracle cure that everyone is lead to believe? To me, I would think that grind, prime, and paint would hold up just as well or better than painting over a problem. And don't get me wrong, I am not against it. I used it on the frame of my '62 (not actual POR but another company that the rep claims is the exact same thing as POR) and had satisfactory results as far as looks and toughness seems to go, but it has not been in weather yet. I also had the frame sandblasted and by the time I had gotten around to painting it (or coating it) it had a slight brown discoloration starting. But some of the people on other sites just talk like you can paint over rust scales the size of dimes and have excellent results. Do you paint guys have some input one way or another?



Kevin
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Old 04-12-2005, 05:50 AM
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Just My Opinion but POR15 is just a tough coating to cover rust. If the seal provided by the POR is broken the rust will just start again. Coating heavily crusted surfaces will fail faster if the surface has enough trapped oxygen to continue rusting. I've used POR on interior surfaces (inside doors, fenders, quarters, roof, etc.) with good results and feel it is best suited for these areas when there is a small amount of rust that can't be cleaned. I've seen failures with POR on underbodies so I don't use it on any exterior surfaces.
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Old 04-12-2005, 06:21 AM
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There have been a few threads lately in here that have had me saying the same things. Not only do I think the product isn't the miracle cure people think it is, I believe it's just an excuse for laziness and poor workmanship. I can get kind of worked up about it sometimes, how do you help people that won't help themselves?

Rich
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Old 04-12-2005, 11:37 AM
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Kevin,
I would do anything to help you, but I have come to the conclusion because I get so emotional about some things that I won't even read the Por postings let alone respond.
Like you said they have went after the do it yourselfers with a great marketing program.
Funny the body shops don't use it?

I think reading your post you answered your own question as far as what it does.
The 55-57 T-bird site years ago (these cars leaked new) so floorboards are a problem. It was brought up about this miracle cure and than the responses started pouring in from other people that had done it and than when it did peel the rust was way worst than when they had done it a few years before.

Have you ever taken house paint and put it over rust?
Only problem is house paint is slower to dry (made that way) brush the scale rust off and brush a coat of house paint, do one coat a day (important) until you get 3.4 mils (their spec). Latex is very resistant to most chemicals and in a lot of areas stronger resistant to chemicals than auto paint.

Its cheaper and will do the same thing, just takes more time-OH to make you feel better take a pen and cross out latex and write in epoxy or polyurethane.
Oh, if you go to paint it, you will need a tie coat down the road.
1 +1 = ?
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Kevin,

Funny the body shops don't use it?
1 +1 = ?
Cause body shops dont usually do restoration/rust repair
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:11 PM
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There Are Some Great Uses For It.

LIKE ANY TOOL WE HAVE INFRONT OF US POR-15 CAN BE USED TO HELP ALL OF US IN MANY WAYS-ONCE YOU LEARN WHAT IT CAN AND CAN'T DO.

Por-15 has so many uses in the auto field it our surpasses many paints of it's type.But to end rust is not one of them--in this application it is only preventitive medicine at best and only if apply the correct way....And yes it will cover dime size holes if you first use -or lay down screen over those holes and por it on both sides....

When i did a complete and total rebuild of my rusted out suburban-we cut all the rust out and replaced all the inner and outter pannels and rockes and posts and --well everything--before we even picked up por-15...So with the truck fuly rebuilt to the cost of tens of thousands-what do you then protect it with so it will never rust again in 10 lifetimes, POUR-15 MAY BE THE ONLY ANSWEAR HERE....

I spent a full month doing the complete truck and frame--every nook and corner-every hole and valey way-even making elongated brushes to reach the unreachable and putting on the pour after a complete acid prep....every single part or piece of the underside of my working show suburban has 2 rich and thick coats of pour 15 that has remained like new for the last nearly, 5 rough and tumble years of use

And these years of use have been on places like the ALASKAN and DALTON, STEESE AND RICHARDSON HIGHWAYS and over more them 8k miles of dirt roads and 30k miles of paved roads and even way more then this...like towing trailers around the entire us...So twice a year i take armor all and spray and wipe down the entire frame and body-then when the bottom gets either fully filthy or just dusty a slight presure wash makes it back to full show conditions; completley...

Even the parts i went ahead and powder painted like the axles have not held up to this pour 15 protection....So given the right application and the knowledge of the products abilities under the proper use- i am one who thinks por 15 is a mircle protector that has a great many protective uses in the auto field-for someone that knows the products abilities and limitations....now i am sure that many folks will write that there are other products that i could of used to protect all that i did and maybe there right but with the iron clad protection it has given me combined with the lighting fast clean off makes it the best i have ever seen anywere at anytime in my limited world....and also it never loses color if applied the right way--mine is as brilliant and shiney black as the day i put it on....

Hope this helps someone who can use this great product in it's PROPER APLICATIONS
ALASKAN
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitmaks
Cause body shops dont usually do restoration/rust repair

Thats funny in the last four years collision repair (insurance work) has declined every year and in those four years the fastest growing part of the segment has been restorations and custom build (including street rods, Cycles, custom paint)
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Old 04-17-2005, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Thats funny in the last four years collision repair (insurance work) has declined every year and in those four years the fastest growing part of the segment has been restorations and custom build (including street rods, Cycles, custom paint)

thank god for that!!!
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Old 04-17-2005, 07:02 PM
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http://www.hotrodders.com/t53429.html


myself, i'll not be buying anymore POR15. if you want to get rid of rust, you have to get rid of it, not paint over it.
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Old 04-17-2005, 08:48 PM
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As I posted in another thread,I was reading an article about a full rear quarter replacement and during the procedure they were using it to coat the inner side of the wheelhouse and any rusted areas behind the quarter.
Their procedure was to use a 24 grit disc to clean all the crud and loose rust BUT not to remove the rust down to shiny metal. The explanation was that POR need's "some" rust to bond with.

They also stated that it was impossiable to mechanically remove all rust from rust-pitted metal,and if you don't get it all,it will eventally come thru whatever paint you apply over it.So unless you are having the entire car dipped & E-coated,POR 15 is the way to go.

This being done by a reputable Restoration outfit.

I have no doubt that this stuff HAS a benifical use but It's NOT a miricle cure-all for rust and LAZINESS.
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Old 04-18-2005, 06:48 AM
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Maybe a better question would be what is the best coating for areas that are prone to corrosion?

Assuming you are starting with solid bare metal, either newly-fabricated or properly prepared, what sort of coating will provide the best long-term corrosion resistance?

I'm specifically thinking of parts like chassis/suspension, miscellaneous brackets, etc. All the things that don't normally get painted body-color, nor require a high-temp coating.

I don't have a lot of experience, but I suspect that starting with an epoxy primer would be a good first step.

I've used POR-15 - even used their primer. Had mixed results with it. Doesn't seem (to me) to be all that much more effective than a good quality PU.
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Old 04-20-2005, 08:14 PM
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well this is my first (major) restoration project. i have limited skills and resources. after reading a lot about it i decided to use por-15. and as i write this i'm letting a coat dry on my trunk and package tray area. my car is a 66 impala and the big problem with them is rear window leakage and rust. well i had plenty of both. and in areas that i nor anyone else will ever be able to access. the big thing about por-15 is the prep work you can't just pour it over scale and crud and expect it to work you need to get off all the excess rust degrease it and treat it with their metal ready rust converter. let me tell you this as much as its been a PITA when i spayed the metal ready on all the rust in the rear trunk area and under the package tray and the whole rear filler area between the window and trunk.wow it did a great job completely getting rid of the rust!!!! its now regular metal. i know that nothing gets rid of everything but now i'll put on the por-15 and it will be a long time before anyone sees this rust again. there is also rust on spots where the underside is completely sealed in and unless i cut out half of the rear trunk near the tail lights the rust will continue and eventually come through again and at that point there wont be enough of the panel left to repair. but by the time that happens i will not be the owner of the car. (and i will 100% reveal whats covered up when i sell the car.) i would be cutting and welding for years at the rate i work without it.


oh and as for body shops using it the friend of mine who owns his body shop and is painting my car next week loves the stuff and he uses it all the time. obviously if your building a 30 to 60 G car your going with all metal and cut out all the rust completely but for a weekend cruiser of a guy with limited skills the stuff is great.
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