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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2004, 11:51 PM
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Hi Ron,

I know nothing at all about stainless. I haven't worked with it much at all. I did try to shape a piece of 18ga a guy had started on in an attempt to make himself a bathroom sink. He got it about half the depth he wanted it and it got to the point it was nearly impossible to do anything with. I think he needed to anneal it, but I don't know how to properly anneal stainless, so we didn't fool with it any further. I don't normally anneal anything, but this is one time I think I would have!! Have you tried a shrinking disc?? You might ask on the metalmeet forum, If anyone would know, they would be there. www.metalmeet.com

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Old 07-27-2004, 05:23 PM
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warped metal

hi i have been doing body repairs for over 35 years this works well for me in basically all weld applications. if you wish to weld your panels and your in a bit of a hurry as all others have said spot weld first as far apart as possible while installing patch then weld 1 inch move to furthest point weld 1 inch use water wet rag to cool previos weld follow same procedure all around patch should end up with minimal distortion slight tap at weld edges before grind should give good leveling to rest of panel
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:10 PM
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Dbaud,
I agree with you on keeping the metal cool and sticth welding. I was thinking of that so it was intersting you bring it up. At work, we have even had success keeping dimensional distortions out of tubing using something to cool the metal, sort of like a heat sink. Most of my work has been in the metal fabrication area, so I am not always sure of which way to go when it comes to body work since it is not my main profession. One intersting thouhgt just came to mind. I have had success using various types of heat sinks to control warpage. One of my favorites is to place a large hunk of aluminum behind the piece you are welding. Aluminum acts like a great heat sink. Not sure if that would work in bodywork, but heck I may try it sometime, just for @#$$$ & giggles. With all the ideas and wealth of knowledge on this board, this is turning into a great site for me, Thanks folx!
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:26 PM
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Cool air right out of the blow gun nozzle directly on the weld works good.

Troy

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Old 07-27-2004, 11:27 PM
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Hi Guys,
Any time you introduce heat into a panel, you are going to create warpage. Sheetmetal will shrink when heated above about 300+/- degrees in a localized area. If you heat the entire panel, or a complete car at one time to above that crucial temperature, it will not warp, as the entire panel is coming up to temp. evenly, but localize it and you get shrinkage. Welding heats the metal to above that 300 degree mark no matter what you do, so you are going to cause warpage, distortion or whatever else you wish to call it. In order to remove this distortion, you must stretch the metal within the heat affected zone, which when welding steel, will be the blued area surrounding the weld. The trick is to never leave the heat affected zone, no matter how bad you want to. The surrounding metal outside the blued area is not damage, although it may look that way. The shrinkage from the heat along the weld seam has pulled the metal tight and has caused distortion outside of the heat affected zone, but it has not shrunk. There is no damage to fix outside the heat affected zone...ever. It will pop right back into place once the proper amount of stretching has been done in the right spot.
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Old 07-28-2004, 04:24 PM
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patch welding

randy that may very well be true but also the fact is when welding in patches the best method i have found is to keep weld areas as short as possible well stagered and as cool as possible.will give you very limited warpage & much less hammer & dollieing to restore panel to original shape.as for cooling with a block of aluminun dont know never tried it but you con hold that aluminum block behind drilled holes or small rust pit holes and weld them shut without burning bigger holes.try it works great
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Old 01-17-2005, 10:43 AM
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Randy...that fender is a total work of art! I hope to be able to do that someday. I have a truck door that will be receiving a new 1/2 skin (aftermarket replacement panel) My question is should i splice it in above the body line? The replacement panel is not the greatest quality for one and it doesn't have the same curve to it as the door does. If I splice in above the belt line I'm thinking there will be less chance of distortion, but its on a concave surface which wont accept my sanding board. What do you guys think? (Or is this a dumb question....) The truck is an '87 chevy p/u Thanks in advance...

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Old 01-18-2005, 06:07 AM
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Randy has proven that you can do beautiful work with a mig-welder.

I still prefer gas-welding for anything I can reach both sides of. The metal seems to stay a little more easy to work and the weld clean-up is almost non-existent if performed correctly.

Randy, Have you ever cut through one of your metal-finished mig welds with aviation snips? I'm curious if the cut feels the same as where there is no weld. I'm guessing it feels a bit tougher right at the weld. I've always thought a mig weld was like a little invisible stiffener in the panel.

John
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Old 01-18-2005, 11:21 AM
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Gearhead,

In the case of an '87 Chevrolet pick-up, I wouldn't personally consider installing a half skin. My suggestion to you would be to get a full skin, or better yet, a complete door. GM wants a fortune for them, but there are some pretty decent aftermarket doors made for these. Rust free doors should be available as well, as GM used that style door up into the 90's on crew cab pick-ups.

If you do decide to go with what you have, I would advise you to trim the new panel to replace only what needs replaced. Why we have in our heads to cut away good original metal, only to replace it with sub-standard aftermarket patch panels is a mystery to me.

In years past, before I knew the first thing about shaping a piece of sheet metal, I would buy replacement panels that were absolutely horrible. The feature lines were never correct and they were always a challenge to work with, yet I would always cut away the good metal and use the entire replacement panel, even if all I needed was a small section of it. I has always seen it done that way, so that's how I did it. Monkey see, monkey do!!!




John,

I actually prefer to TIG weld panels, but the MIG works in a pinch.
I originally wrote that article after some discussing on welding thin sheetmetal with a mig on the metalmeet site.

I have cut through mig welds and it basically depends on how much it's been worked. If the weld hasn't been crushed, it seems a bit harder than the parent metal, but if it has been planished and worked down to the same thickness as the surrounding material, I don't notice much of a change.

The wire used in a MIG and the filler rod you use for gas welding is normally the same tensile strength, so the only difference should be in the process. I don't have any problem metalfinishing MIG welds, although there is more work to do to get them ground down. I seldome have to grind off any proud weld bead when TIG welding. I imagine gas welding is about the same. I haven't done enough gas welding to be proficient at it.

Randy
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:14 PM
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Randy...That does seem logical. I'm sort of stuck with the panels now. I've already fit the inner bottom, and cut off the lower part of the outer skin. Hopefully my attached pic will show the cheese and rot around the key lock mech. With that being said would you still use the full panel? Notice how the curve of the patch panel isn't even close to the original? I'm going to ask for your advice on that matter too if you would be so kind.....Thanks in advance...
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Old 01-18-2005, 08:18 PM
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and this...
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:24 PM
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Hi Gearhead,

I would send those back and go with the full skin. The radius being off is only because of the flange locking it in, in the 90 deg. position. Once it's hammered the door shell, it will follow it fine. The weld seam is where you will spend all your time. A full skin could be installed in about 2 hours, whereas you will spend 10+ installing that one.

If you stick with that one, place the seam about 1" below the feature line, splitting the difference between the lock and the feature line. This will make it easier to planish the weld seam.
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Old 01-19-2005, 05:12 AM
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Thanks again Randy...I have to stick with that one. I bought it about 6 months ago.....
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:47 AM
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I read an artical about putting a ne gas cap in a motorcycle tank and they used a heat sink that looked like playdough it was a putty but they did not say what it was. Has anyone else seen this or know what it is?


BTW Randy that fender looks sweet! dang good job.
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Old 01-19-2005, 09:10 AM
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You can put the lower patch on and make it look good in a couple of days. if you have done several in the past. But the upper part of the door will probably rust through very soon also the bottom inner structure will go soon.

You should get a used door for about the same cost as the patch, plus all the material and tools. Or even an after market shell for a few bucks more.

Troy
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