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-   -   Questions on the Ford 4.6 DOHC and 5.4 DOHC (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/questions-ford-4-6-dohc-5-4-dohc-76721.html)

Nightfire 12-21-2005 04:35 PM

Questions on the Ford 4.6 DOHC and 5.4 DOHC
 
Hey guys,
first off let me tell you that I have NO clue when it comes to modern engines or fuel injection etc. I've only worked with straight 6's and Chevy Smallblocks before so go easy, this whole idea of electronically controlled engines seems far out of reach. I was browsing through Arrowheads project journal and I saw that he adquired an engine that looked very much like a Hemi. He said it was a 4.6 DOHC. What does DOHC stand for? Here's a picture of one
http://hotrodders.com/journal_photos...1290806422.jpg
Which cars did these engines come in? Are they readily available at junkyards? I really like the looks of it, and it would probably be cheaper than a HEMI. I'm slowly starting to look for an engine for my T-rat. I dont really wanna go with the SBC I got for free. I undestand these engines have a computer...and are EFI? How can I convert to carburated...or would one be better off leaving them like that? I really dont know how to wire a car at all, so as simple as possible would be best. Heres a pic of the Ford 5.4 DOHC
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y...overengine.jpg
What cars did this one come in?

thanks,


Mike

matt167 12-21-2005 04:59 PM

You can probably find them in the junkyards, I know of '96 up mustangs ( 4.6 DOHC ) , '1997- up F150-250's ( 4.6-5.4 DOHC ) and Linclion uses them also in the 4.6. I'm not shure but I think only the DOHC engines have the hemi looking valve covers, the SOHC has sparkplugs that enter at the top of the head near the fuel rails, but they can be found in early 90's Crown Vics and Merc Maequise. nither engines can be carb'd that I'm aware of, because they are fully electronic/ have no parts for that conversion and use coil pack ignition ( no distributor ). DOHC means dual overhead cams and SOHC means single overhead cam.

Ghetto Jet 12-21-2005 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightfire
What does DOHC stand for? Here's a picture of one


it stands for Dual Over Head Cam. Two camshafts per head. So it has 4 cams. That engine first came in the Lincoln Mark VIII in 1993.

Nightfire 12-21-2005 08:42 PM

Thanks guys, I s'pose the wreckers would have some of them Lincolns the way some old people drive :mwink:
Say I was to find one, do I need to take the whole wiring harness with it? And the computer? (I wouldnt even know where to look for the computer).





Mike

matt167 12-21-2005 08:44 PM

take the whole car, and follow everything out to make shure you get all engine wiring, then send the car back to the junkers, computer is somewhere under dash

Arrowhead 12-22-2005 09:36 PM

Looks like someones been skullking around my journal :nono:

Ha Ha Very Cool! :welcome:

As far as I've found, the 4.6 DOHC (looks like an old hemi) came in Mustang Cobras and the Lincoln Mark VIII (only the 93-98 Mark VIII's, not the town cars or continentals). Not sure if the 5.4 ever came with DOHC (except maybe in the Lightnigs). The 4.6 and the 5.4 are very common, but not the DOHC variety, these were only put in the higher performace models. I'm using one out of a '93 lincoln and puts out 280 HP stock. These are are like the Cobra's little brother, the cranks are not forged, etc but the blocks are the same and will take a 96-98 cobra intake. These are all aluminum blocks though and can handle some decent horsepower.

You could convert over to a carb, Sullivan Perfomance I believe makes a regular carb manifold. The ignition would a little difficult as there is no distributor.

If you noticed in my journal, the original 302 I used was EFI and I just "transplanted" everything from the donor vehicle. My suggestion would be to stick with the older (more stupider) versions of computers. The early EEC-IV on on my 302 is very similar to the computer on the 93 Mark VIII. 96 and up you have newer versions with OBD and PATS (anti theft). You can delete stuff on the older versions and it will still run ok.

A word of warning though. If you have to crack open one of these aluminum beatuties, thay are not cheap to replace parts. The head bolts are supposed to be one time use, so there's maybe $100, gasket set are around $200, so theres 300 bucks to take it apart and put it back together. forget about pistons and ring and bearings, etc, $$$$$$$$$$ Those aftermarket hemi looking valve covers are over $400 UNPOLISHED!!! The bottom ends have four bolt mains, alignment bolts on the caps and full depth block skirts, so you need to know what your doing. Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with this motor, but I'm not using it because it's cheap or easy. I love a challenge.

Nightfire 12-23-2005 09:52 PM

Hey thanks Arrowhead, sweet bucket you got there. After reading all of this I'm beginning to think using one of these motors is far out of reach. This'll be my first engine build, and I'm on an extremely tight budget, so I'm pretty sure this engine will only make things harder than they are alread. Gotta love the HEMI look though :eek:


Thanks to all




Mike

pmeisel 12-24-2005 11:23 AM

The Lincoln Mark VIII's are cheap in the used car ads now, I have seen several for under 2 grand....

ChevelleSS_LS6 12-24-2005 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmeisel
The Lincoln Mark VIII's are cheap in the used car ads now, I have seen several for under 2 grand....


swap a SOHC in there and resell! most people wouldn't know the difference :mwink:

If you want a different engine nightfire, try a Buick Nailhead v8 (up to 401c.i. from the factory), LS1s are getting less expensive a'la Ford SOHC/DOHC v8s, and Edelbrock makes a carb swap kit for the LS1.

Also, GM 5.3L (325ci) and 6.0L (362ci) v8s are essentially the same design as the LS1, and that 4.8?L v8 might be.

An old inline six would be neat :thumbup:

ChevelleSS_LS6 12-24-2005 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmeisel
The Lincoln Mark VIII's are cheap in the used car ads now, I have seen several for under 2 grand....


swap a SOHC in there and resell! most people wouldn't know the difference :mwink:

If you want a different engine nightfire, try a Buick Nailhead v8 (up to 401c.i. from the factory), LS1s are getting less expensive a'la Ford SOHC/DOHC v8s, and Edelbrock makes a carb swap kit for the LS1.

Also, GM 5.3L (325ci) and 6.0L (362ci) v8s are essentially the same design as the LS1, and that 4.8?L v8 might be.

An old inline six would be neat in an old rod:thumbup:

EDIT: in the end, it's your ride. Consider your options, and make something unique. SBCs are cheap and simple, but are as common as green grass in people's front yards. I have heard of people using GM Quad4 4bangers in rwd applications, and they are alot easier to service that way than mounted the wrong way, as seen in my buddy's grand am (PITA to service, try putting in a t-stat on the thing :evil: ) Or- a 3.1 or 3.8L v6 from a base Camaro/Firebird would be neat also. Take a 3.1 and use the alumanum heads from a late model 3.4 (same engine just different internals).

matt167 12-24-2005 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrowhead
Looks like someones been skullking around my journal :nono:

Ha Ha Very Cool! :welcome:

As far as I've found, the 4.6 DOHC (looks like an old hemi) came in Mustang Cobras and the Lincoln Mark VIII (only the 93-98 Mark VIII's, not the town cars or continentals). Not sure if the 5.4 ever came with DOHC (except maybe in the Lightnigs). The 4.6 and the 5.4 are very common, but not the DOHC variety, these were only put in the higher performace models. I'm using one out of a '93 lincoln and puts out 280 HP stock. These are are like the Cobra's little brother, the cranks are not forged, etc but the blocks are the same and will take a 96-98 cobra intake. These are all aluminum blocks though and can handle some decent horsepower.

You could convert over to a carb, Sullivan Perfomance I believe makes a regular carb manifold. The ignition would a little difficult as there is no distributor.

If you noticed in my journal, the original 302 I used was EFI and I just "transplanted" everything from the donor vehicle. My suggestion would be to stick with the older (more stupider) versions of computers. The early EEC-IV on on my 302 is very similar to the computer on the 93 Mark VIII. 96 and up you have newer versions with OBD and PATS (anti theft). You can delete stuff on the older versions and it will still run ok.

A word of warning though. If you have to crack open one of these aluminum beatuties, thay are not cheap to replace parts. The head bolts are supposed to be one time use, so there's maybe $100, gasket set are around $200, so theres 300 bucks to take it apart and put it back together. forget about pistons and ring and bearings, etc, $$$$$$$$$$ Those aftermarket hemi looking valve covers are over $400 UNPOLISHED!!! The bottom ends have four bolt mains, alignment bolts on the caps and full depth block skirts, so you need to know what your doing. Don't get me wrong, I am very impressed with this motor, but I'm not using it because it's cheap or easy. I love a challenge.

The head bolts are torque to yeild bolts ( can be id'd by the thread running all the way up the shaft ) , meaning they are pre streached from the factory, and you have to put torque them with a torque angle meter, there is no torque rating for final torque, there is just a light torque, then the spec will say to torque 180 degrees or whatever the spec ( torque angle meter is a round meter that measures from 0 to 360 degrees, and has a holding clamp so it does not move, just zero it, and turn it to spec ). If you need the TTY spec, ask someone with a shop, or I can look it up for you if my school shop ever gets shopkey working again ( somthing happened to the subscription )

matt167 12-24-2005 12:41 PM

How about a Chevy 181 4cyl from a marine application ( only used in marine, but same designe motor as 151 4cyl from the Nova's ) They retain the same bolt pattern as regular Chevy's

Nightfire 12-25-2005 03:32 PM

Nailheads are quite scarce here and expensive. I dont want another SBC or SBF if I can avoid it. The only options (cheap options that is) are a 318 or a 460 that can still be gotten for quite cheap in mopar trucks. If possible I dont wanna have anthing to do with EFI. A stovebolt would be neat, but I also want some power :mwink: plus I already have a straight 6 in my truck.





Mike

Mustangsaly 12-26-2005 07:42 PM

you can buy aftermarket computers and wiring for the ford 4.6 DOHC & SOHC Engines, and have computer & engine wiring built to fit your needs. a friend of mine is doing a 63 galaxie 2dr fastback with a 4.6 SOHC Motor outa a 98 or 99 crown vic police car, it hit a cow when it had 36,000mi on it, real cold the day of the state auction, and he bought the complete car for $750. hes using it with a aftermarket computer and wiring. hes running no catalytic converters ect.








Mustangsaly

farna 12-27-2005 09:02 AM

Nightfire, don't let EFI intimidate you! Yes, there is a bit of a leraning curve, but if you buy the whole vehicle and swap the stock engine in with the wiring harness, there isn't usually a problem -- not if the engine was running to begin with. I have a Jeep EFI 4.0L in my 1963 Rambler. I did this about seven years ago, one of the first 2-3 people to do it in a Rambler. The 4.0L is a natural for older Ramblers -- it's basically the same as the original Rambler six introduced in 1964 with a new head and EFI added. You can even bolt a 2005 4.0L Jeep head onto a 1964 Rambler 232 block, and that's a common upgrade for later 258 sixes in Jeeps.

I started by getting a wiring diagram for the 88 Jeep donor and my Rambler. I thought I could get rid of a lot of wiring, but after tracing there was no need. For any vehicle, start at the computer. Follow the harness around the engine compartment, and pull everything connected to it. You'll find a relay center somewhere with 3-5 relays and some connectors. That drives things like the fuel pump and AC compressor, and usually the ignition. Mount everything back in the receiving vehicle. It will be hard to hide some things in a T-bucket, but you can lengthen some wires. I've seen one T with an EFI engine. The computer was hid behind the firewall on the drivers side, just to the left of the steering column. The relay center was mounted on the opposite side of the firewall (in the bucket), with most wiring between the two under the dash.

I seem to recall it being a TBI SBC, but it may have been a Ford 302 -- I was paying more attention to the wiring, and it was a few years ago. I do remember it was a TBI and not port injection. There was a large chrome air cleaner on it that hid the TBI unit, so you couldn't tell it was EFI without closely looking. A multi point EFI will be a bit more visible, but not much more wiring. The fuel injectors and fuel rails will be visible.

I made an adapter to mount a standard type open air filter on my Jeep 4.0L. Most people don't realize it's EFI until they look close -- they see the filter and assume a carb is under it! Most who swap in the 4.0L into an older Jeep or Rambler/AMC car leave the "hose" attached to the throttle body with a cone filter on the end, or an aftermarket tube and cone filter.

Stick with a pre-96 EFI and it's pretty easy to install in another car. Later models aren't to difficult either IF you get one without the security features. Unfortunately that means the low end cars, which will more likely have fours and maybe a small V-6. They are usually difficult to switch to rear drive anyway, unless you get one from a small truck. An S-10 with a V-6 would be a nice choice for a T-bucket, just make sure it's an 85 or later if a 2.8L -- there were problems with the rear seal in earlier ones that were solved with a redesign for 85 models. Even a 2.5L four is plenty fun in a T-bucket, and looks good. I've seen one with four motorcycle carb on the side that was killer! You'd think the carbs weren't big enough (from a 1000 cc bike), but most bike engines turn around twice the rpm the four will, so they have to pass that much more air.

Since budget is limited, find a good used RUNNING engine (preferably the entire vehicle) to use. Doesn't even matter if it's high mileage as long as it runs good. The T is so light it won't strain the engine much, and you can rebuild in a year or two if necessary when you have better funding. You really shouldn't have a problem finding a car with 60-100K on it. EFI engines tend to last a lot longer than carb engines because there is less soot and raw fuel dumped into the oil from running rich. A carb always runs rich at some point or other -- you can only mechanically regulate the air/fuel mixture so good! EFI does a much better job -- it's like having a tune up every 30 seconds or so.


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