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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2005, 01:34 PM
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When I put underdrive pulleys on my 87 IROC (350 tpi) it made no difference in ET or mph. Same with the "custom" AS+M chip and cold air induction. Biggest single gain I got was from a cam change (.4 sec). Next was the (full) exhaust (.3 sec).

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Old 04-02-2005, 07:17 PM
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cheap HP

I guess that can vary from vehicle to vehicle, as far as chips and stuff go. As I said, I firmly believe the $265 I spent for the Stage 1 chip I got for my T-bird, was well worth it in terms of overall performance gains. The improved gas mileage, may eventually pay for it as well. LOL.
However, the best hop ups are keeping the engine well tuned, and the best bang for the buck are still free flowing intake and exhaust.
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Old 04-02-2005, 08:02 PM
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tech pages

free mods

more stuff

just a suggestion, I read in a car craft or something once they said to trim the rain flaps or whatever in the intake tubing to reduce restriction. I can't seem to find it. Just help air enter the engine easier, and the exhaust get out easier. And don't go with flowmasters, everyone and their mother, their grandma, and your neighbor's cousins uncle has flowmasters it seems.

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Old 04-03-2005, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy_Freud
The stealth ram, while a good intake, is expensive (as stock fuel rails will not work) and doesn't work with a MAF type setup (without some modifications). You must also replace your distributor with a small cap and remote coil. And you'd have to get an adapter (or make one) to plug your stock harness into the different cap. It would be a downgrade on the ignitions system unless you replaced with some high quality parts as that particular GM HEI was one of the best made.

Dont bother with the JET chip. Wait till you have a few more mods, and then at the very least, have someone program one FOR you (same cost most of the time). It still wont be very custom, but at least it will be more tailored to your needs. On their chips, Jet changes fan kick on temp, and bumps the timing up a few degrees. Thats about it.

Those cars can actually benefit from some underdrive pulleys. Put some in an 85 Corvette and it made a noticable difference. Also bought an adjustable fuel pressure regulator to play with the fuel pressure. That helped as well. The latter is a good investment for tuning purposes.
The the tpi and tbi cars all came from the factory with the small distributor and external coil you speak of. They started that in 86 I believe with the first tpi cars. As far as the expense they arent that expensive as compared to say an accel super ram or TPIS's Mini Ram. I wouldnt suggest one as a budget mod. Although they give a stock engine a healthy boost in hp and breathing ability I would suggest a cam change at the same time. This would take full advantage of the new intakes extended breathing capabilities. It was designed as a direct replacement and uses everything from the tpi except the fuel rails and manifold, runners and plenum. Check out www.stealthram.com good info for the curious.

The added expense of custom tuning is really only warranted if you want every ounce of power out of your car. It only shows significant gains unless your engine has been internally modified from stock, such as a bigger cam, heads, more compression, otherwise custom tayloring the fuel curve isnt really that benifical. In most cases where the car is stock or has some bolt ons a "generic" performance chip will work great. Good luck with learning how to tune and burn chips your braver than I am...lol. I started messin with it and decided the aftermarket systems like the FAST and DFI were an easier way to go from a user stand point.

iroclife, as to your request about the thermostat you can only order it through a GM dealer. As they dont list it in there application charts just tell the guy at the parts counter what your ordering and give him the AC Delco part number which is 10220957. If your really interested in playin with this car check out www.thirdgen.org it has TONS of great info on these cars.

Doc
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Old 04-03-2005, 12:51 PM
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If it were me. I agree with everyone I would do Headers, cold air intake, good tune up, 373 gears, 1.6 rockers, Adjustable fuel pressure reg bump up the fuel psi to about 47, 180 deg T stat, Put a resistor in the intake air temp sensor to make the comp think its 7 deg air coming in. Not sure of the resistance value. You could do all this for a little lover 1000.00. I think you would see a huge improvement. Just my .02.....Ed
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Old 04-03-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docs91RS
The the tpi and tbi cars all came from the factory with the small distributor and external coil you speak of. They started that in 86 I believe with the first tpi cars.

The added expense of custom tuning is really only warranted if you want every ounce of power out of your car. It only shows significant gains unless your engine has been internally modified from stock, such as a bigger cam, heads, more compression, otherwise custom tayloring the fuel curve isnt really that benifical. In most cases where the car is stock or has some bolt ons a "generic" performance chip will work great.
Doc
The TPI cars did not come from the factory with the small cap and remote coil. When the TPI was launched in 85, it came with the in-cap HEI coil and remained there for a number of years (his year vehicle included). I dont think that they changed that in the factory until later on when they went with the Optispark type system. I've never seen or heard of a TPI that came stock with the remote coil and small cap that would work with the stealth ram. Based on part number listings for the coil's and caps, they are the same from launch year (85), up through when they changed to the Optispark/Lt1 engine.

The beauty of the custom tuning is that for LESS than you can buy a generic chip, you can purchase everything needed (minus a computer) to burn your own chips. If you simply want to change the fan temp and timing to have a "generic" setting you can. I only mention it now because as most people know, the hunger for power is never satisfied, and eventually he will be doing heads and a cam and will want something tailored to his needs.

As far as messing with the MAT goes, its not really worth the time. If you can do it for free, then relocate simply for a more accurate air reading (as the unit wont heatsoak from the manifold/plenum, but you aren't going to see any measureable performance IMO. The MAT's main function on those cars is the EGR open/close function.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2005, 02:52 PM
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I've never seen a TPI with the coil-in-cap HEI. All of them that I have looked at (85 vette, 87 Iroc, 89 iroc, 92 z28) had the remote coil/small cap. I dont think the large cap would even fit behind the plenum.
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Old 04-03-2005, 03:28 PM
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My 89 vette had coil in cap!
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Old 04-03-2005, 09:05 PM
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thanks everyone. you put good ideas in my head. i will post you on my work when i start on it. thank you again.
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Old 04-06-2005, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy_Freud
The TPI cars did not come from the factory with the small cap and remote coil. When the TPI was launched in 85, it came with the in-cap HEI coil and remained there for a number of years (his year vehicle included). I dont think that they changed that in the factory until later on when they went with the Optispark type system. I've never seen or heard of a TPI that came stock with the remote coil and small cap that would work with the stealth ram. Based on part number listings for the coil's and caps, they are the same from launch year (85), up through when they changed to the Optispark/Lt1 engine.

The beauty of the custom tuning is that for LESS than you can buy a generic chip, you can purchase everything needed (minus a computer) to burn your own chips. If you simply want to change the fan temp and timing to have a "generic" setting you can. I only mention it now because as most people know, the hunger for power is never satisfied, and eventually he will be doing heads and a cam and will want something tailored to his needs.

As far as messing with the MAT goes, its not really worth the time. If you can do it for free, then relocate simply for a more accurate air reading (as the unit wont heatsoak from the manifold/plenum, but you aren't going to see any measureable performance IMO. The MAT's main function on those cars is the EGR open/close function.
Well Mr. FI young gunner TPI cars did NOT all come with the same distributor set up. In 85 and early 86 they had the coil in cap or BIG cap HEI the some late 86 and the 87-92 model TPI's came with the smaller cap seperate coil set-up. I've been wrenchin on and have owned many different year third gens and a couple fourth gen camaro and firebirds. I was wrenchin on them when the first TPI cars hit the showroom floor which was about the year you were born.

The average bolt on and go car enthusiast doesn't want to buy the equipment to download the bin files of his factory PROM chip. Then learn how to read and modify the bin files all for the sake of burning one chip. Its been my experiencethat alot of the hardcore enthusiasts would rather spend the money and have someone tune it for them. Unless your really into these cars or have an interest in tuning them for a living its a big PIA for them. Most people would rather buy the generic chip or have someone burn them one and be done with it. Most of the bolt on crowd couldn't care less as long as the chip worked and they thought it made an improvement.

For the more hardcore enthusiasts the aftermarket ECM's have become more the norm. They come with more user friendly software, hardware, and things like wideband O2 sensors which allow the EFI systems to be more accurately tuned for more radical applications. The days of reprogramming the stock TPI ECM's has for the most part come and gone. Its more of a learning experience than anything. Now the four gen LT1 and LS1 cars with the flash memory for which they have developed better tuning software like LT1 and LS1 edit are a different story for a different time.

I do wish you well in your quest for knowledge. We all had to start somewhere. It takes more than reading a few books and knowing a few facts. If you keep workin at it you'll learn it. Experience is the best teacher though.

Doc

Last edited by Docs91RS; 04-06-2005 at 06:58 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 11:30 AM
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All of the TPI cars I have worked with (all but a few of which were Corvette's - possibly these cars were limited to coil-in-cap) had the coil in cap setup. I have never seen a setup that disputed that, and have never seen a parts listing that disputed that either. If some came with a different setup, then it is what it is and I am wrong in that respect.

I mentioned that spending the money on having someone do a chip would be a better investment than a generiic Jet or Hypertech chip. I was simply stating that if he plans to keep this car and continue his upgrades, it might do some good to research a little bit into FI and DIY FI type projects as both a knowledge enhancer, and money saver.

I very much resent your condesending tone. I have no problem admiting when I am wrong when I am shown evidence that contradicts what I have said, but dont pretend for a second to know what sort of experience I have simply based on my age. I agree that experience is the best teacher, but like I said, you having 0 idea what sort of experience I have doesn't exactly put you in a position to talk to me as if I've simply read "a few books."

Regards.

Update - 85-91 Corvette's used the In-Cap Coil type distributor. 85-86 F-bodies did however in 87 and later the F-bodies went with a remote coil type setup.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 01:40 PM
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I'm thinking the large cap/small cap discrepancy might be a case of they ran out of one and used to other to keep the production line moving. Maybe wrong but it makes sense.
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Old 04-06-2005, 04:27 PM
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I dont really know why they changed. From what I know, the In-cap style was one of the best designs GM made as far as single coil systems go. Over on Corvetteforum.com when recommending TPI upgrades, an ignition upgrade (as far as distributor and coil go) is low on the list as that in-cap style produces more than adequate spark even at higher RPM's.

Perhaps it had something to do with going to a roller cam setup (in 87 I think) and the distributor gear. However if that were the case I dont know why the wouldn't have changed the Corvette as well.
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Old 04-06-2005, 09:44 PM
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The same question was asked when GM first decided to go with the external set up. The answer was in part because the distributor was now controlled by the computer it no longer needed to house the rather large control module and mechanical advance weight system needed by the older HEI's. This made it possible to make a smaller, cheaper to produce and maintain unit.

I do agree that the design of the larger cap made it a better candidate for high performance applications. By positioning the plug wire terminals farther from one another it reduced possible cross firing between the terminals inside the cap in high output high rpm situations. Its only downfall was the added heat that having the coil in the cap caused. This is why MSD offers the large cap option in thier higher end racing distributors for applications where clearance allows. Its also why Ford used a large cap on thier EEC ignition sytems till they went distributorless. Its also significant to note that both these systems use external coils and that the older Large cap HEI can also benefit from an external coild converstion when used in a high performance
application.

Doc
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Old 04-08-2005, 01:30 AM
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if your 305s got alotta miles on it buy some new pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets and a 350 bare block and change everything over, youll be more than impressed on how a 350 will out perform a 305
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