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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 01:07 PM
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More. Read the link.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...pdf/05-598.pdf

I'm not sure, but I think the Department of Transportation may be federal.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 01:37 PM
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As it is written:

18 U.S.C. 511 prohibits any person from tampering with a VIN that has been inscribed on a motor vehicle. If there is a typographical or computational error in a VIN that has been assigned to a vehicle by its manufacturer, the manufacturer should supply NHTSA with a list of vehicles produced with the incorrect VINs, and the VINs as they should have been inscribed on those vehicles. NHTSA will enter these VIN errors into the Federal VIN error database.


Normally, the manufacturer will provide the owner of a vehicle with an incorrect VIN a letter identifying the erroneous VIN and the VIN as it should have been assigned, as well as a contact name and phone number to be used by law enforcement in the event that further information is needed during an investigation of the VIN error.


Additionally, the manufacturer should inform the National Insurance Crime Bureau (NICB) of the error. That organization can be reached at 1-800-447-6282, ext. 4528, or by fax at 703-430-1925.


But, like I said, just go ahead and spend the money and time doing what you THINK is okay, then go tell the DMV what you did. I'm sure they will be more than happy to get with you.

Again, good luck.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 01:48 PM
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i've heard that in some states/all you can get a "custom Car/ Homebuilt car title"..

so they compile the VINS.. body,engine,chassis and any other place on the car that your specific car has a VIN stamped

click here to see the article

it wouldnt fully load on my computer.. but try it..
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 01:50 PM
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heres a link to NY's page for the custom car registering
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfeverfred
As it is written:

18 U.S.C. 511 prohibits any person from tampering with a VIN that has been inscribed on a motor vehicle.
Really? ANY person? Then I guess this Subsection 2, Paragraphs 1 and 2 are just BS?

Once again:

Quote:
(b)(1) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply to a removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration by a person specified in paragraph (2) of this subsection (unless such person knows that the vehicle or part involved is stolen).

(2) The persons referred to in paragraph (1) of this subsection
are--
(A) a motor vehicle scrap processor or a motor vehicle
demolisher who complies with applicable State law with respect to
such vehicle or part;
(B) a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal,
obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for
the repair;

(C) a person who restores or replaces an identification number
for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;
and
(D) a person who removes, obliterates, tampers with, or alters a
decal or device affixed to a motor vehicle pursuant to the Motor
Vehicle Theft Prevention Act, if that person is the owner of the
motor vehicle,
or is authorized to remove, obliterate, tamper with
or alter the decal or device by--
What part of "does not apply" is unclear? I don't think it can be much clearer. Repair is acceptable. The legal owner can do anything. Please tell me how I'm misinterpereting this. The way I read 2B, alteration is allowed if necessary for repair.

By the way, you still haven't answered my question. How is swapping the shell different from replacing the roof, floors, quarters, firewall, trunklid, doors, fenders, and hood?
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPhotographer06
i've heard that in some states/all you can get a "custom Car/ Homebuilt car title"..
All of which is good information, but we're talking about a repair to an existing, legally owned vehicle.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 02:02 PM
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but if he wants to put a diffrent body on.. as long as it has a vin. he can just get a new title made..


right?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 02:31 PM
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Joes right. Go build it, man. Good luck to you. Don't call the DMV, just go for it. Tell 'em Joe said it was okay.

I posted what I found to be good straight forward info. I'm through with it. When I think of all the guys who operate chop shops that went to jail because they didn't know about this HUGE loop hole that Joe has found, I shudder.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Really? ANY person? Then I guess this Subsection 2, Paragraphs 1 and 2 are just BS?

Once again:



What part of "does not apply" is unclear? I don't think it can be much clearer. Repair is acceptable. The legal owner can do anything. Please tell me how I'm misinterpereting this. The way I read 2B, alteration is allowed if necessary for repair.

By the way, you still haven't answered my question. How is swapping the shell different from replacing the roof, floors, quarters, firewall, trunklid, doors, fenders, and hood?
I agree with you 100%. They beat me up on this last week so I'm trying to stay out of it. You can't compare a chop shop with a restoration shop or a guy doing it himself.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 03:07 PM
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Paragraph 2B is referring to removal of the VIN tag in order to effect a repair and then replacing it, the same number tag on the same car. Moving a VIN number form rusted out car A to not rusted car B with no title and titling car B as car A is FRAUD. Bend the wording all you like.
Why not just hang the good VIN on a wreck that has been issued a certificate of destruction? or how about on the carcass you "found" abandoned somewhere? That is why VINs and serial numbers are placed in different and hidden locations, to be able to check the provenance of a car that may have questionable documentation.

Bottom line, do what you want and the chances are that nothing will happen. If a question comes up, and the numbers don't match or there is anything fishy at all, don't cry and whine when the car is confiscated or at a minimum the DMV people make your life miserable.
You would be better off getting good paper on your good condition carcass first, then put all of your good parts on it and use the documentation for that particular car, not the VIN tag and title you have handy.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 03:17 PM
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Mustang Vin

Your Mustang has the Vin stamped on both inner fender panels, one side is visible when the fenders are installed and the other ends up under the fender lip on the oposite side. trying to restamp the number on new panesl would be difficult unless you can find the asterisk stamp used by the factory. everybody has their oponion on what is legal it's hard to replace crash panels and make the welds look right when doing a resto car the door id tags used special push in rivets that are hard to obtain. I used all mine years ago retired ford engineer
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 07:15 PM
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Well, Joe, looks like you and me are the only ones on the same wavelength. I respect everyone's opinion--I really do. However comma.....true story:

I had built a 70 Chevelle about 80% of the way. I knew I had a little rust around the windshield but I figured I'd save it for last. You know what happened next. I pull the windshield and now I have a lot of rust all over the channel areas. No way was I going to scrap my zillions of work hours and start over. I knew I needed a cowl donor so I bought an El Camino with only a bill of sale (I ran the numbers first-it was not stolen). I cut the cowl clip out and grafted it into my finished body. I had no title on my Bill of Sale car so I simply changed the VIN with the original. I used the correct rosette rivets, so no one would ever know--until now ha-ha.

I still own the car. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen and would stand up in any court of law and tell my story with a totally clear conscience. If they throw me under the jail, then so be it, but I really feel like my my actions were completely above board. If I had a rust heap with a good title and a legal donor car without a title, I would do the same thing again--with a clear conscience. I would not get the DMV involved. I'm not a chop shop or a sleaze ball and I would not worry about it.
Are those sirens..............?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 07:18 PM
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But, you only changed a dash....not a whole body. Big difference, even if the tag was attached.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2007, 08:01 PM
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NY is easy to get a registration ( pre '72 no titles ). I put it in the how to title a hotrod wiki, a long time ago. it's a couple papers you get from the DMV, former owner of the vehicle fills them out, you get a trace of the vin, take that into the DMV, they prosess it, and you get a 30 day non transferrable registration, in which is turned into a transferrable after 30 days ( they send a new tag ). it's so simple, no questions asked, there is no need to be fradulent.


Mustangs have vin stamps all over the place, drivers door, sometimes behind the engine on the tag ( not all tags here, were stamped, depends on how lax sombody was, but they all had rivited tags ) with the fenders removed, it's stamped on each side of the inner frame underneath, have to look, body tag connected to rad support, also has it, other places also.
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Old 04-30-2007, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfeverfred
More. Read the link.

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2...pdf/05-598.pdf

I'm not sure, but I think the Department of Transportation may be federal.
DOT shure is federal
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