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A quick question for the paint and body folks.

1K views 13 replies 4 participants last post by  st3gamefarm 
#1 ·
I'd like to get some opinions on some bodywork and paint that I've gotten an estimate for on my wife's 2013 Jetta wagon. The bodyshop claims they have to hire a glass shop to come out and remove the small back window in the photo and have them come back and reinstall it after they've painted it. They also want to remove all the chrome molding along the roof line. I can understand them wanting to paint the whole rear bumper and quarter panel, rocker and roof line above the doors all the way to the windshield to keep from having to try to blend the paint but it seems removing the window seems a little excessive. The quote I got for fixing the small dents by the tail light and paint, including R&R-ing the window is a little over $1400.. I know paint is expensive but it doesn't seem there's really a need for taking the window out etc.. Whadya think?.. (Sorry for the bad lighting in the pics)
 

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#2 ·
It's perfectly normal, that window will come out where I work. I am not kidding, not a tiny bit, I haven't seen a window like that masked off in 20 years! I am not kidding, maybe some customer pay job that I don't remember, but where I work that window comes out! We warrantee everything for the life of owner ship. Masking that off opens up a can of worms in the very real possibility of the paint and or clear peeling up there.

With the life time warrantees most shops have with the paint company they are using stuff like that must be done!

We do an "open blend" maybe one in 1000 cars. Something like an "A" pillar with a chip, on a customer pay or some very odd situation like the owner doesn't want the whole side painted or something like that.

But even that little chip on the bottom of the A pillar where the fender slid back and hit it, the whole roof rail will be blended and cleared, the quarter and the rocker if it's all one piece. The quarter window, tail lamp, rear bumper, roof moulding, it all gets removed. Depending on the windshield and back glass rubber that it has, it could get "roped" or it gets removed too.

But this is an "industry standard" these days.

Brian
 
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#3 ·
Thanks for your reply, Brian. This is what the guy that gave us the estimate said also. (I know little to nothing about paint so...) We have every intention of keeping this car for as long into the future as we can see, so we definitely want a job that will last.
 
#4 ·
Do they have a lifetime warranty? Are they a "Preferred" shop by your insurance?

Most insurance companies also have a lifetime of ownership warranty but you need to use their preferred shop.

I have to say, I don't know how others work, but when we say "life time warranty" we mean it! It has blown me away at things we will correct for a customer years later. Very questionable stuff that was way more likely customer caused damage.

It's one of the reasons I have stayed here so long, I like how they treat customers.


Brian
 
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#5 ·
I'm not sure of the answer to any of these questions. It definitely give me "food for thought" and I'll check it all out. This is exactly the kind of response I was seeking so I can make an informed decision... We keep our cars for many, many years and want it done right. To save a couple of bucks now, only to have it fail down the road won't be much of a bargain.. Thanks again Brian.
 
#6 ·
No doubt removing glass is the proper way to go. I run into this a lot. when the customer is paying they are willing to make compromises, so there is another way, don't go up that far with the paint.
You can put a pinstripe on the car and paint up to that and save yourself 5-600.00 but if its covered by ins don't sweat it. Ins companies aren't known to spend their money on wasteful procedures, as a matter of fact they tell the shop how to do it and how much time they'll pay for the shop to do it that way.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Dead is right on that. The ins. company will pay for the removal of windows, belt mouldings, lights etc.

But it would surprize me (based on what I see in the pics) if it was simply a short blend, and break the clear at the body line. Blend the bumper, and clear the whole thing. Only removing the bumper cover, and tail light.

As to subletting the removal and installation to a glass company, rather than doing it in-house is probably a CYA move. But with tempered glass the risk of breakage is minimal. But a windshield OTOH I'd rather not remove myself unless it's already broken.
 
#8 ·
The insurance will question nothing if there is any guidelines from the manufacture of the car or the paint that says otherwise.

There are no paint companies that will ok an open blend, none, zero. So to that, you never "have to" do an open blend, period. We do very rarely for one reason or another on something like an A pillar, or the rare case of a body line it could be broken at like on a work truck or something.

Most body shops don't understand this and let the insurance companies walk on them. Many manufacturers like Toyota will have a guideline that says no used weld on parts, done deal, end of discussion you don't have to use a used quarter panel to fix the car. How about splice points, if the body side in the manufacturers guildelines says to splice the door aperture at the center of the A pillar even though the dash and windshield will have to be pulled, that is the way it will be done. If the manufacturers guidelines say that the wire harness for the ABS can't be repaired, and must be replaced, than it gets replaced!

If the guidelines from Honda say a wheel can't be "repaired" other than paint only, if there is any damage what so ever to the aluminum it is to be replaced, than it gets replaced. If it says no AM bumper part, then the insurance company will pay for OE, done deal.

Brian
 
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#9 ·
Oh and by the way, the OE manufacturers are all "price matching" on AM and recondition parts so much now, using them is history! The AM supplier we have used for years is SICK over the lost of business. We use a tiny, microscopic tiny amount of AM parts compared to a few years ago. That goes for reconditioned bumpers too, it's so damn nice, we replace them with new OEM and paint and install without a hassle.

It has totally changed the business! Now, of course the insurance companies got wind of this and now they want more AM parts where they didn't before, but we get the prices met and move on to get the car out the gate, which is the most important thing right?

Brian
 
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#14 ·
Oh and by the way, the OE manufacturers are all "price matching" on AM and recondition parts so much now, using them is history! The AM supplier we have used for years is SICK over the lost of business. We use a tiny, microscopic tiny amount of AM parts compared to a few years ago. That goes for reconditioned bumpers too, it's so damn nice, we replace them with new OEM and paint and install without a hassle.

It has totally changed the business! Now, of course the insurance companies got wind of this and now they want more AM parts where they didn't before, but we get the prices met and move on to get the car out the gate, which is the most important thing right?

Brian
'Round these parts the "price matching" is the OEM matching the list price of the AM, So you don't get the markup, when the ins company figures AM parts. But, sometimes you make that back in fitment. But not allways.
I like State Farm, They no longer figure AM parts.
 
#10 ·
I just bought a bed side for a 2014 Nissan frontier crew cab for 350.00 and a rear door skin for 200. I almost went with used parts and would have had to remove the bed side and replace the whole door a used door was 600. and would have to be stripped down, painted then put back together so buying a skin saved a ton. I couldn't believe it 350.00 for a bed side I remember when a skin alone was 4-500 and a bed side about 800 that was years ago. I almost didn't even call them because sheetmetal along with anything else are rediculusly priced even WITH my shop discount. The quality of the parts was top notch. This is the first I've heard of them getting competitive now it all makes sense.
 
#11 ·
Mike, isn't that WILD! Prices have always been odd, where a screw was $20 and the bracket it bolts to that uses 30 times the metal and all that is $2. But you are very right now it's gotten even odder. Anything that is not available AM or that they don't think will be supplied AM will be CRAZY priced like a plastic air cleaner or something like that, they will have that at some super high price and something that is offered by the AM like the fender or hood will be half as much. It's hilarious!

And I don't know if you are using the ordering systems like "Collision link" were you send to the dealer a copy of the est from the insurance company that has AM parts and they will then give you an offer on the AM or Reproduction parts prices trying to beat them. We will get the dealer giving us a price on a part that is 40% off list to get the sale!

They can't beat it every time but they are doing amazingly well. And to tell you the truth we will take a much smaller profit or even a loss on a part that is apart of a big job to get the OE instead of playing games with the AM that seldom doesn't cause us some crap only to make a few dollars on that one part. I mean, come on, it's a $6000-$10K job, to make nothing on the bumper where we would have made $40 on an AM it's not worth it. We go with OE and eliminate the trouble and get the car out the gate.

The manufacturers like Ford GM, and some imports are now asking for cores on all kinds of stuff like wheels and lights and bumper covers. When they get them back all they do is destroy them. They don't want them out available for anyone to rebuild so that they loose another sale. It's wild how they play with the numbers.

Things are changing big time!

Brian
 
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#13 ·
OMG Mike, you can't believe what it was like to be a paint rep when the whole "incentive check" BS came along. That is when I quit, I had enough. You could go into a shop and make an offer to give them $20-30K up front in an incentive check which was basically a discount up front. And have them "think it over" only to have another paint company come in and offer them a dollar more and get the account!

But what was worse is to go into a shop and lay it on the owner that you can do this so he can get a new booth or something and he gets the painter involved. When the painter hears that the owner is thinking about doing this he tells the owner that he will quit if he changes, wham, I walk out knowing I will never get the account.

It was wild, there was on area I serviced a huge area with a lot of shops, probably over a hundred shops. This area was owned by PPG they paid crazy, mind blowing large incentive checks. We are talking basically a 50% or more discount up front. They were absolute prostitutes, giving away product to get the business period, giving up a lot of the GP just for the sake of getting the business away from the competitor.

Yeah, that was about all I could take. It was hard work and that making it so much harder, I had enough.

Brian
 
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