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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2013, 05:04 AM
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i went as far as mounting the pump in a small metal box and filled the box / air gap with spray foam, it did not work.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-29-2013, 06:23 AM
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mounting a pump in the tank is not hard, nor is it $$$$$$$$$$..


see this is a 67-68 firebird fuel tank sender, most likely a 67-68 Camaro also..

anyways see where the feed tube with sock filter.. remove the sock.. cut some of the line after the 90* bend to try and keep the feed as close as the factory sock.. even if you need to have a u turn after the pump and the sock beside the pump
install the pump(not the one you have) wrap the pump body with a small 1" long piece of boat exhaust rubber pipe(fuel won't hurt it and it'll keep the pump from buzzing against the floor of the tank , only needed if pump bought doesn't come with it's own rubber part) and put the sock filter that comes with the new pump on the feed end.. run the power wires up and through the sender base.. most walbro intank kits come with the grommet for the wires to pass through and seal the tank. and weld the feed line at the sender base(ring tank mount) as the solder won't cut it..

or make the oem feed the return,.. get an a/n bulkhead fitting, drill hole in tank. connect a/n line to inside half of bulkhead fitting and mount fuel pump to that.. 1999 grand mark/crown vic pumps will work but you'll need a regulator to bring the pressure down to the tbi 15-18 psi.. or use a walbro.. the pumps mostlikely less than the carter installed in it now.. and the a/n bulk fitting and fittings and line are maybe 30 bucks.. mounting it to the oem feed tube is maybe 5 bucks if you don't have any steel tubing/line hanging around.. and the pump power grommet is as cheap as a junkyard away.. no NEED for a custom tank.. unless this was a corner carver.. and needed the fuel to not run away from the feed line.. this is an hour job tops.. once you drop the tank.. it's so easy.. it's not even funny..

Last edited by gearheadslife; 12-29-2013 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 12-29-2013, 11:17 AM
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If you don't fashion some type of anti-slosh baffle to surround the pump pick-up you might experience pump starvation during cornering on a tank that's low on fuel.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by EOD Guy View Post
If you don't fashion some type of anti-slosh baffle to surround the pump pick-up you might experience pump starvation during cornering on a tank that's low on fuel.
and that's any different from the pump outside the tank, how..
easy fix, don't go below 1/8 tank.. besides you shouldn't get that low anyways the fuel cools the pump..
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:32 AM
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The "how" would be...... on a out side the tank pump, the pickup is small and normally has a screen/sock attached to it and rests near or on the bottom of the tank....only needs a small amount of fuel to keep the 3/8 line full.

On an in tank pump the actual pickup opening on the pump is located 1/2" to 2" above the bottom of the tank using some sort of stand-off and needs a little more than the 1/2" to 2" of fuel in order to keep the pump supplied. All modern tanks that I am aware of, have a baffle or open cell foam in the tank that surrounds the pickup preventing pump starvation during cornering.

As you mentioned above it's easy to convert a tank to an in-tank pump, and just as easy to attach a baffle to the pump using a SS hose clamp and a piece of galvanized or SS exhaust tubing. Just as easy to modify a junked in tank pump/sending unit flange to just about any vehicle, simplifying the line and electrical connections. Simply trim the donor flange to fit within the orig flange footprint (make sure the locking ring can still engage), cut a hole in the orig flange, weld the trimmed donor flange to the orig flange.

Last edited by EOD Guy; 12-30-2013 at 02:49 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 12-30-2013, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD Guy View Post
The "how" would be...... on a out side the tank pump, the pickup is small and normally has a screen/sock attached to it and rests near or on the bottom of the tank....only needs a small amount of fuel to keep the 3/8 line full.

On an in tank pump the actual pickup opening on the pump is located 1/2" to 2" above the bottom of the tank using some sort of stand-off and needs a little more than the 1/2" to 2" of fuel in order to keep the pump supplied. All modern tanks that I am aware of, have a baffle or open cell foam in the tank that surrounds the pickup preventing pump starvation during cornering.

As you mentioned above it's easy to convert a tank to an in-tank pump, and just as easy to attach a baffle to the pump using a SS hose clamp and a piece of galvanized or SS exhaust tubing. Just as easy to modify a junked in tank pump/sending unit flange to just about any vehicle, simplifying the line and electrical connections. Simply trim the donor flange to fit within the orig flange footprint (make sure the locking ring can still engage), cut a hole in the orig flange, weld the trimmed donor flange to the orig flange.
maybe the way SOME are done.. but I've always place the sock as low as the stock set up did.. no change.. if the pump inlet is centered on the pump and the sock goes on it. I add to the inlet to get sock on the floor..
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:45 PM
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I understand you don't think anti-slosh baffles are necessary but I think they have a purpose and should be considered when converting an old tank to an in-tank pump setup.
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Old 02-27-2014, 12:14 PM
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cavitation

I think the high pitched whining noise is due to cavitation as one member mentioned. On my car which started out in life as a 70 Buick Electra 225 with a 455 wildcat, and rapidly became a Rolls Canardly when I started using my tig welder, I turned the gas tank from flat to upright. We put on a Throttle Body injection with a carter pump. The return line went to a tee located between the tank and pump. This was a mistake as the fuel recycles without cooling and the alcohol in the fuel starts the vanes cavitating as soon as it heats up. Engine cold and fuel cold >> no whining noise. Engine hot and fuel hot >> whining noise. I have a spare fitting on the tank so the return line now runs to the tank and has to heat up all the fuel before whining starts. So far, so good. My friend tells me that any obstruction in the pickup line will also cause whining which makes sense as it is pulling a partial vacuum >> cavitation. I hope this helps.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Good info! Hope it helps!

There's also a couple different designs for pumps. The Carter is a better pump but it is Vane drive like the aftermarket high performance pumps and they are noisier. The other is an impeller drive and quieter.

With external pumps there is supposed to be a filter before the pump. Using a clear carb filter is a good choice and can see if there is any debris or water settling in bottom. Remove in tank sock when plumbing this way.

The micron rating of a carb filter is much higher then a Fuel Injection filter! So you still need a EFI rated filter after the pump and this seems to make no difference in noise.

If you run a Metal can Fuel Injection filter before the external pump it is nosier! If you run a sock in tank, without the pre pump filter, it is quieter!

External pump closer to tank is also quieter! Less suction...

So my findings are similar and has a lot to do with placement of pump and the amount of Sucking it has to do! They like to pump, not suck! This falls over to the fuel line used before the pump. Fuel line is for pressure and I have seen some cheaper quality carb fuel line collapse with the suction needed to supply fuel needed.

Last edited by EagleMark; 02-27-2014 at 05:16 PM.
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