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Old 06-29-2005, 02:34 PM
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R12a ??????

Anyone used or heard of this stuff???My brother called and asked me about it.I have never heard of it so I could not give him an opinion on it or the performance of it.It is made by a company called RedTek out of CA.R12A Claims

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Old 06-29-2005, 02:40 PM
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R12 was outlawed for use in new auto A/C systems several years ago and has since become hard to find. As far as I know it is still legal to use the stuff in older A/C systems that require it. All new A/C switched over to R134 systems right around 1990 I think.

I presume your question refers to experiences anyone might have had with this specific brand?
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:45 PM
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I did read up what the company says about RedTek 12 and it sure sounds good. I put a 134 system in my '33 Ford street rod back in 1991 and it is just about worthless. 134 was brand new then and I am not sure that all the components in my system are as good as what is available now. But after reading what it says about this RedTek 12 I would be tempted to give it a try to see if it improves the cooling efficiency of my 134 system. I never even bother to turn my A/C on because it does such a crappy job.
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Old 06-29-2005, 02:49 PM
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I am familliar with 134A and with the old R12.It is just the company claims the R12A is compatible with either system,no rules against it and so forth. I just can't tell brother to buy soemthing I am completely clueless about. I remeber a few years back,a few of my friends were trying to beat the R134 craze and got some type of Environmentally fFreindly crap,swore by it.Now they have completely destroyed their entire system,and only one guy out of the three had the money to replace his entire system.The others have 2-70 A/C.
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Old 06-29-2005, 03:10 PM
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I can see why you might be wary of something you have never heard of. I realize this is no protection but at least their web site comes off as a professional operation and doesn't make a lot of wild claims. They seem to have their tech stuff pretty well organized.

You could always ask them for some references from people who have used their product, I guess. Also find out how long they have been in business. Usually if a company is making crap they don't stick around too long.

And finally, you might go by an A/C shop and ask if they know anything about it. Or maybe call one of the hot rod A/C makers, like Vintage Air, and ask them if they know about it.
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Old 06-29-2005, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimdavis
I can see why you might be wary of something you have never heard of. I realize this is no protection but at least their web site comes off as a professional operation and doesn't make a lot of wild claims. They seem to have their tech stuff pretty well organized.

You could always ask them for some references from people who have used their product, I guess. Also find out how long they have been in business. Usually if a company is making crap they don't stick around too long.

And finally, you might go by an A/C shop and ask if they know anything about it. Or maybe call one of the hot rod A/C makers, like Vintage Air, and ask them if they know about it.
Not a bad idea. I am not sure why he is interested in it,the lower price I suppose.R134A does not break the bank,and IMO it does a good job of cooling a car if your A/C system is in good shape.But,he likes to try different projects out.I am not too big in being a Guniea Pig for anything though.Different as night & day I guess.Thanks

Last edited by RCastle; 06-30-2005 at 02:12 PM.
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Old 06-29-2005, 04:29 PM
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Haven't used that brand but have used enviro-safe brand . It works with 12 and 134 in fact it blows colder that R12. And is only about $21.00 for a complete recharge kit.
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Old 06-29-2005, 08:53 PM
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RedTek is a hydrocarbon blend. I have used it and found that it works quite well, however I switched to Duracool just because the Redtek smells like a pinetree airfreshener if you have a leak. Since it's a similar smell, it may go unnoticed. The other stuff smells like rotten eggs, so you know you have a leak. The cooling effect is the same or slightly better than old R12, and far superior to R134a in an R12 system. I retrofitted a goodly number of my customers vehicals to R134a, and all were unhappy with the system performance. "It's not nearly as cold as the old stuff" was the most common complaint. After some research and a couple of refresher courses, I came to the conclusion that the condensors/evaporators were too small, and could not transfer temperatures efficently enough for the new refrigerant, which runs higher head pressures. I usually don't retrofit now, instead just use Duracool, and all my customers are extremely happy with their A/C performance. I have done probably 250+ systems in the pas 5 years, and have had no failures as a direct result of the Duracool or RedTek products.


BTW, I have heard through the grapevine that R134a is on the way out as the main refrigerant, and hydrocarbons are on the way in. Not sure how long, but my supplier has hinted at the 5 year mark and R134a will be as obsolete as R12.
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Old 06-29-2005, 10:56 PM
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Red-Tek

We used to have (3 yrs ago) an automotive repair shop business in our NAPA store, and used to do a fair amount of AC work in both passenger and agricultural vehicles.

What I'm about to say is based on the opinions and beliefs that were expressed by the previous owner and the shop foreman, both of whom I have considerable respect for...

Their position was that they would NOT install hydrocarbon refrigerants ... period.

At the time (and I don't beleive that it has changed) the only two approved refrigerants for automotive use were R12 and R134A, and that was ALL that we would consider.

I'm sure that they were just being overly cautious, and were doing the "safe" thing in order to avoid potential lawsuits. Their worry was that R12A and other "drop-in" replacements were largely based on propane, combined with additives that made the mixture nonflammable.

We have been shown videos etc that "prove" that (fresh) Red-Tek will not combust in an enclosed space even when in the prescence of an open flame.

The problem was, as we saw it, that the additives were molecularly smaller than the propane base ... and would be the first to go in the case of even the smallest of leaks ... leaving you with basically propane!

Red-Teks claims of better cooling efficiency are, in our opinion, correct. The few odd farmer in this area is even PURPOSELY filling his own AC system with 100% propane because it is a very efficient coolant!

Most tractor cabs have a LOT of glass, and airflow is usually reduced by dust. All of this is further complicated by the fact that some of the older tractors were under-engineered with systems that are too small to cool under these conditions.

R134A is (if I recall correctly) about 80 - 85% as efficient as R12 was, so if the system was performing "marginally" with R12, you can be sure that they're not going to be happy with retrofitting to R134A. It should be noted that the newer AC systems in both auomotive and agricultural vehicles have been engineered with this in mind, and are cooling adequately IMHO.

Another concern, and reason for us to "boycott" non-standard refrigerants was the potential to contaminate our equipment. Of course shops can buy refrigerant verifiers (in fact it is almost a necessity to have one now or face having to turn away work) It takes a considerable investment in equipment if you are going to service many different refrigerants. For example, you'd need a different holding tank and possibly even dedicated charging equipment for each type ... or risk contamination and subsequent down-time.

Our shop foreman brought in a hose sample one day from an AC system that had failed after being converted to Red-Tek. He showed us how (in his opinion) the refrigerant had "attacked" the inside of the hose, causing it to "bubble" and eentually burst.

Lastly, Four Seasons / Everco will not warrant any compressor replacements if it discovers that anything but R12 or R134A has been used.

R134A is presently in "short supply" and the price is going through the roof!

Apparent reasons for the "shortage" include:
- The manufacturing process is quite caustic / corrosive and that one of three major plants is presently shut down to do "turn-around".
- The other two plants are still playing "catch up" with the increased demand, and have commitments that need to be fulfilled.
- R134A is also used in the styrofoam manufacturing process, a market where the profit margins are considerably larger than they are in automotive AC.

Those are the highlights / memorable ones ... there were several more...

Anyway ... with higher prices, we're anticipating an large increase in the use of "replacement" refrigerants. So stay tuned for more debates ...

Don
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Old 06-29-2005, 11:16 PM
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BTW, to back up what I said about the compressor warranty in my previous post...
see: http://www.4s.com/webcatalog/Docs/warranty.pdf

Page 7 of 9, item #5

Don
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Old 06-30-2005, 04:34 AM
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Great info guys. All our trucks at work were manufactured with R134A components and it will freeze you out. We have no trucks that were R-12,so retrofitting explanation makes sense. I just told him I would see what I could find out on this RedTek stuff,cause being my little brother,I do not want to see him waste his money.
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Old 11-30-2005, 04:10 AM
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R-134a replacements

I've been using RedTek R-12a for more than 5 years in all types of cars without any trouble what so ever .

I love the stuff and replace R-12 & R-134a whever is required with R-12a . This stuff is a lot colder than 134a and has much lower head pressures .

Only draw back is that R-12a is much colder , and can achieve air flow temps well below freezing . Temps in the 10s to low 20s can the norm .

This has caused there to be the need to have to put a temp switch on a few 134a systems to keep the evaporator for turning into a block of ice .

Also many system with a 134a charge never get cold enough to cut off while in operation wasteing much energy and shortening the life of compressors .

With use of R-12a and with a 32*F temp switch added to the system , the system can cycle cutting wear and saving fuel . An increase of a couple of mpgs while using the R-12a filled ac can be gained . There are also many othere benifits with the use of " RedTEk R-12a " .

I'll never use R-134a again .
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Old 11-30-2005, 05:32 AM
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I'm going to move this thread over to the general rodding tech forum.
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Old 12-02-2005, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCastle
Anyone used or heard of this stuff???My brother called and asked me about it.I have never heard of it so I could not give him an opinion on it or the performance of it.It is made by a company called RedTek out of CA.R12A Claims
This is the best stuff on the market, period:

http://www.duracool.com/Duracool/faqs.html
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Old 12-02-2005, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rotarykid
I've been using RedTek R-12a for more than 5 years in all types of cars without any trouble what so ever .

I love the stuff and
I'll never use R-134a again .
Thank you for the testimonial.

Personally I have NEVER been in a factory 134 vehicle that cooled worth a d-m in town when the temperatures got above 80 ambient.

Last edited by xntrik; 12-02-2005 at 09:42 PM.
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