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Old 07-18-2008, 08:41 PM
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race car question

hi my name is randy and i race at my local dirt track 1/4 mile around and i need to ask a few questions about my motor and heads..... i have a .60 over 350 decked brand new with 882 heads shaved 20 thousandths valves been punched out 202 -1.6 stock piston and rotating assembly has to be but i have a slightly bigger cam xe-268 running 273 gears got and run them in low gear a 4 barrell carb .....my questions are what can i do to get more horse power outta this motor and the heads are 882 and most say they junk but they were free from a sponsor. the car is a 86 caprice stock intake all cast iron must have casting numbers on it. so far im debating on whether on going bigger cam ..well i need some help on what u think this is my first post and sorry if i left out and info just let me know and ill help you out with missing info

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Old 07-18-2008, 08:53 PM
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welcome....Moving this to engine forum
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:56 AM
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Unfortunately you can throw all the cam you want at it and it really won't help much. Those heads are just choking you as far as airflow is concerned. If the rules allow you to use Vortec heads then by all means find yourself a set and give yourself a 30-50hp kick in the pants.
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Old 07-19-2008, 07:48 AM
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with the vortec heads you will need a different intake,and the heads will need work to take the lift of the cam.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:29 AM
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race car question

First off ,what class are you running?.....one of the stock classes? if so that is a heavy car to run the gears that you stated you are running.You stated you want more power .....I am guessing here but it's bogging off the corner's ..right?has no pick up down the straights? I am guessing here but it sounds like you need to go to a lower gear ratio(higher number)to bring your rpm"s up ,this will give the power to come off the corner's( will help on corner entry too!)and have much better pick up down the straights.You really need to get you cars set up and handling right before you try for more power. That being said all things being equal.....If you have the same motor set up as every one else ,but your car is set up so that you can drive anywhere on the track(top, bottom or middle)you can out drive them purely on handling of your car even in the corners where they have to back out of the throttle to keep from crossing up.
Get the handling right ,then go for the power if turns out that you need it.
Good Luck,
Kenny
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randy_in_texas
hi my name is randy and i race at my local dirt track 1/4 mile around and i need to ask a few questions about my motor and heads..... i have a .60 over 350 decked brand new with 882 heads shaved 20 thousandths valves been punched out 202 -1.6 stock piston and rotating assembly has to be but i have a slightly bigger cam xe-268 running 273 gears got and run them in low gear a 4 barrell carb .....my questions are what can i do to get more horse power outta this motor and the heads are 882 and most say they junk but they were free from a sponsor. the car is a 86 caprice stock intake all cast iron must have casting numbers on it. so far im debating on whether on going bigger cam ..well i need some help on what u think this is my first post and sorry if i left out and info just let me know and ill help you out with missing info
What are the rules!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-19-2008, 09:55 AM
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Get a new sponsor.
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Old 07-19-2008, 10:01 AM
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I would guess that he has a "no Vor-Tec" style heads in his rules.

tom
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Old 07-19-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by machine shop tom
I would guess that he has a "no Vor-Tec" style heads in his rules.

tom

Probably not. I could never figure out why tracks don't let you use them. It's not like they're rare or even expensive.
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Old 07-21-2008, 06:38 AM
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In several resources I have come across that compared the 882's against other castings of that era like 487, 441, 993's the 882's actually out flowed the rest of the castings. So actually for performance these would be the best option for a very limited motor like yours. However, these casting are thin and when used on a race motor are very prone to cracking and this is why everyone thinks they are junk.

Here is what you need to do to free up HP.

1. I am guessing that you have to use GM rotating stuff but the only rule about the piston is that it has to be flush with the deck. So get some GM "pink" rods...these are forged and only weigh 417 grams. Then get some wiseco or manley lightweight 2 valve relief pistons these also come in around 400 grams. (compared to 600 gram rods and 600 gram pistons stock) This will really wake up your motor. Plus to balance it out your machine shop will have to take lots of weight off of the crank which doubles the effect of the light weight rotating assembly.

2. Gapless rings

3. Competition 5 angle valve job (with carbide cutters you can usually open up the port up to 1/4" above the valve per class rules)

4. Anti pump up lifters. If your car spends any time at all above 5,000 rpm these will get you more HP.

5. Get the right intake...if you class only allows cast iron intakes look for the one with the "crows foot"

6. Take a look at ISKY's line of hydraulic "Mega" cams. Give isky a call and let them know what you want to do...they can recommend one for you. However it is a 50/50 chance you get an d-bag on the phone.
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_v23
In several resources I have come across that compared the 882's against other castings of that era like 487, 441, 993's the 882's actually out flowed the rest of the castings. So actually for performance these would be the best option for a very limited motor like yours. However, these casting are thin and when used on a race motor are very prone to cracking and this is why everyone thinks they are junk.

Here is what you need to do to free up HP.

1. I am guessing that you have to use GM rotating stuff but the only rule about the piston is that it has to be flush with the deck. So get some GM "pink" rods...these are forged and only weigh 417 grams. Then get some wiseco or manley lightweight 2 valve relief pistons these also come in around 400 grams. (compared to 600 gram rods and 600 gram pistons stock) This will really wake up your motor. Plus to balance it out your machine shop will have to take lots of weight off of the crank which doubles the effect of the light weight rotating assembly.

2. Gapless rings

3. Competition 5 angle valve job (with carbide cutters you can usually open up the port up to 1/4" above the valve per class rules)

4. Anti pump up lifters. If your car spends any time at all above 5,000 rpm these will get you more HP.

5. Get the right intake....5if you class only allows cast iron intakes look for the one with the "crows foot"

6. Take a look at ISKY's line of hydraulic "Mega" cams. Give isky a call and let them know what you want to do...they can recommend one for you. However it is a 50/50 chance you get an d-bag on the phone.
You may want to get a gram scale a weigh a Pink rod as we have found them to be 590 to 605 grams in the past.

The 487X head is the best for flow if you can find them.

Light weight crank.

If can go with a 6 inch rod the Manley rods are about 580 grams and the Wiseco XLS pistons weigh appox. 335 grams. Lite pins!

Or even the tour lite rods as they weigh 515 on the 6 inch rods.

We built a similar engine for a customer them we used @.006 its 277,@.050 its 231* and at .200* its 140* single pattern on 108 this engine has won 3 races as of Sat Nite.

We usally don't build these type of engines that require cast cranks and stock heads but helping a buddy out as I owed him. So far its the one to beat at the track.

If there are no rules against the light weight parts and your not running them it would be really hard compete with heavier componets

Good luck with your build Carl
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Old 07-21-2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNC BLOCKS NE
You may want to get a gram scale a weigh a Pink rod as we have found them to be 590 to 605 grams in the past.

Are you sure you are not thinking of the late model LT1 Forged rods? These came in at 600 grams or so but the pink rods were only around 415.
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Old 07-21-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_v23
Are you sure you are not thinking of the late model LT1 Forged rods? These came in at 600 grams or so but the pink rods were only around 415.
We have used a many sets of pink rods in the early 80's and have some old one on the self and we just just balanced a 302 Chevy that had the old pink rods and those were around 600 grams as well.

The pink rod was nothing but a gloryfied truck rod that was shot peened and had pink magnafluxing dye on them.

The last set of titainium rods we had in the shop were heavier then 416 grams.

Maybe I did not buy the right set. LOL
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Old 07-21-2008, 02:19 PM
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I used to run a stock style class as well on paved ovals, but usually the rules are close. I have never seen the lower classes allow vortec heads, for what reason I will never understand.

We always ran a flat top, solid cam engine with 305 HO heads. But from what I was told the 487x heads were the ones to have. As far as making power within your rules we found having a nice carb built was key I ran a VDL built 500 holley, and the power was far better, as well as the right exhaust manifolds. On the smaller tracks (1/4-3/8) we always ran our 2 barrel because ours just seemed to work better, response was way better.

Also having the correct rear gear will make a huge difference. At on time we ran our car in second gear making the car run at its best RPM range. If you can change the rear gear so that you can run the car in its final gear, running at 1:1 you will notice a difference.

What are your rules engine, and transmission? I still run Circle track (now in a Super Late) but I haven't forgot how to push the rules. And I still work on the old hobby stock style cars.


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Old 07-21-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double_v23
1. I am guessing that you have to use GM rotating stuff but the only rule about the piston is that it has to be flush with the deck. So get some GM "pink" rods...these are forged and only weigh 417 grams............

2. Gapless rings

4. Anti pump up lifters. If your car spends any time at all above 5,000 rpm these will get you more HP.
417 grams is the weight of the big end of the rod. The small end is around 175-180 grams.

A good regular type of Sealed Power or Hastings ring will work as well as a gapless type and cost less.

A normal hydraulic lifter will be fine if set up at about 1/8 turn down from zero lash and will cost less.

tom
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