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rambler with nova subframe

13K views 28 replies 10 participants last post by  farna 
#1 ·
Hi new to the forum find the threads useful. I am building a Rambler American 1959 and am considering an old school style no F.I. or comps to be used. Engine comp looks tight suspension looks like a motorcycle, how about a nova sub or complete frame swap anyone done this? Additionally I have a 62 Impala with 454 cruiser, and a 63 880 Dodge that I sectioned into a shorty coupe 413 engine.
 
#5 ·
The Nova subframe is WAY, WAY too wide, WAY too heavy, WAY to clumbsy for the little American. The Nova is about six or eight inches too wide! Make a sub frame from tubing and use Mustang II components.

Brian
 
#6 ·
The Rambler is too narrow for most Mustang II setups too. You'd have to do a lot of work to the "frame" and modify a crossmember. The old Rambler suspension looks frail but isn't -- the old L-head six (or OHV) weighed about the same as a stock SBC -- maybe 40-50 lbs lighter, but that's it, and I wouldn't bet on that much! It looks a bit weird to someone used to ball joints, but is mechanically sound and simple. The lower joints are still available and inexpensive, the upper can be repaired. Most of the time it just needs disassembling. cleaning, and inspecting. Then just grease and put it back together. The most common failure is the owner's fault -- it needs to be greased regularly! Most of the time these were cheap used cars that received little or no maintenance, under which conditions anything will eventually fail or wear out -- nothing wrong with the design.

The springs are easy enough to get out, but take a lot of care. They have built in "spring compressors" -- the seats have "ears" made on them for hooks to keep them compressed, then the seats and spring come out as an assembly. Just be careful and don't drop the mess or the spring could pop out. Once the spring is out you take the four bolts holding the inner arm shafts on and pull the whole front suspension as a unit. What could be easier?

The inner wheel panels have a big hump that's really there for nothing. It's a left-over from the original 1950 Nash Rambler design. The 58-60 Rambler American is a mildly modified version of the 50-55 Nash Rambler. Nash originally had a funky upper shock mount that used a brace rod above it that was in that inner fender hump. They changed the design around 52-53 but never changed the inner fender panel stamping, which was used all the way through 1963 in the American. The 61-63 American is mechanically the same car as the 58-60, but it received a complete reskinning of the old unit body. The side glass is the same from 50-63, as is the floor pan structure. The only major changes to the 58-60 bare unit body for 61-63 were the trunk area and the firewall -- everyting else is the same. The 61-63 looks vastly different with its squared off body panels, but under the skin is almost identical to the 58-60. The most extensive and successful facelift ever!
 
#7 ·
You are the man! I am so thankful for your contributions to the Rambler threads. I have to tell you, I have had a number of cars over the years that I learned a lot about. But this Rambler has me stumped! First off, very few out there, second very few people know anything about them!

I searched around for a forum where I thought I would find a bunch of people working these these cars, I found very little. The ones that are supposed to be the cats meow only have a few people who know these older Americans.

I am having fun learning about them, it is like I am a kid again. But I have to say, it isn't easy!

Thanks so much for your insite. I hope to get out there and fire up my parts car motor this weekend. If I can get it running good it is only a short while before it is in my two door and driving it every day. I can't wait to leave this late model car at the curb!

Brian
 
#9 ·
You too Ramzoom! THANKS! If not for you guys and a couple guys on an AMC forum I would know nothing about this car.

Being I am not hot rodding mine, am I still allowed in the club? :thumbup:

Brian
 
#11 ·
ramzoom said:
Your membership card is on the way...it will also get you a 10% discount at IHOP and free entry into any bingo game in your area........ :spank:

Heres your official membership hat.....



Welcome to the club!!! :welcome: lol.....
How abotu bowling, it's got to include bowling!

Brian
 
#12 ·
Martinsr, I've been into Ramblers since my first in 1979. I haven't done as many mods as I talk about, but have been over the bodies enough to know them real well and figure out what can be done and what's just too much trouble/not feasible. I've taken quite a few apart... and put a few less back together!

396, a fellow in Florida built a wheel-standing 62 American (same chassis was used 58-63 on the Americans -- just outer sheetmetal and firewall are different) using the stock suspension. He added some bracing under the hood and cut holes between firewall and front suspension mounts for Chevy II "over the rail" headers. He also had a full roll cage, but that would only be needed if you plan on wheel-standing too. The car was back halved for really big meats. He never had a problem with the front end.

Alternately, you can cut the car off at the firewall and use a Chevy II bolt-on frame clip with Mustang II style front suspension and have all the room you'll ever need. Heck, weld the front clip into one piece and lift on/off or reinforce and tilt it!

Found some pics of the wheel-stander:


 
#14 ·
I thought of removing everything from the firewall forward and making my own inner fenderwells, then I could use a front clip from a later Nova/camaro and build around it I would graft the front subframe into the rockers and maybe add a rear stub to connect the rear suspension to. I was able to get a close up view of Gary Meadors Nash at a goodguys meet a few years back and the whole frame from an s10 that he did was nice however it requires cutting the floor for clearance in both the front foot area and the rear kickup. The wheelbase of the short wheelbase S10 is within 1/2 inch of the Ramblers which is what originally attracted me to this, however considering the adapting of the steering and gas tank etc. I think I would be better off either building my own frame or putting a sub under it. I was just wanting to know if anyone had done this before. I initially will use a small block around 300 horses and then later put a big block in it, I am not afraid of cutting and fabricating as I have the shop and have done a lot of this type of work in the past. I think the biggest problem I am going to run into is going to be the steering and pedals in any type of swap. I had considered using a nailhead or SBF because of their smaller footprint into the engine compartment, but nailhead prices have gone crazy and I dont have anything for the SBF motors so Iwould have to spend time and $'s to get that accomplished too which brings me back to square #1. Thanks for the replys
 
#15 ·
couldn't you take a f body sub frame and remove some out of the center to make it fit ??( you would have to rework the steering with a rack or cut the centerlink ), but we often cut the crossmember out and replace it with tubing and plate to make hi cap pans fit .and they hold up to pounding when we wheelstand the cars.
 
#16 ·
The control arms brought together enough to keep the wheels under the fenders will just about be hitting each other! The front in is WAY to wide, WAY too wide.

Brian
 
#18 ·
396Wheelstand said:
I thought of removing everything from the firewall forward and making my own inner fenderwells, then I could use a front clip from a later Nova/camaro and build around it I would graft the front subframe into the rockers and maybe add a rear stub to connect the rear suspension to. I was able to get a close up view of Gary Meadors Nash at a goodguys meet a few years back and the whole frame from an s10 that he did was nice however it requires cutting the floor for clearance in both the front foot area and the rear kickup. The wheelbase of the short wheelbase S10 is within 1/2 inch of the Ramblers which is what originally attracted me to this, however considering the adapting of the steering and gas tank etc. I think I would be better off either building my own frame or putting a sub under it. I was just wanting to know if anyone had done this before. I initially will use a small block around 300 horses and then later put a big block in it, I am not afraid of cutting and fabricating as I have the shop and have done a lot of this type of work in the past. I think the biggest problem I am going to run into is going to be the steering and pedals in any type of swap. I had considered using a nailhead or SBF because of their smaller footprint into the engine compartment, but nailhead prices have gone crazy and I dont have anything for the SBF motors so Iwould have to spend time and $'s to get that accomplished too which brings me back to square #1. Thanks for the replys
I got a 2 door Blazer for next to nothing that will be going under my '59 American, they are the ones with the 100.5" wheelbase. I'm going to try to keep floor mount pedals and keep it a manual transmission. I will be using a 1996 Land Rover 4.0L that I got for free, which is a direct relative of the old Buick and Oldsmobile 215 aluminum V8s, I will be keeping the fuel injection. I plan on running a S10 T5 since they are dirt cheap and easily adaptable.

I figured that I need to make new floors anyway since mine are gone, why not just go for it. I can rebuild the entire S10 front suspension for what a set of trunnions for the Rambler would cost. It will also be easier to airbag, since I want it to lay on the ground.

I'm not going for power, just a nice custom cruiser that I wouldn't be afraid to drive anywhere.
 
#20 ·
This is what I have been thinking about. Use what you have and build it. By using common components available everywhere you can keep your machine on the road and repair anything anywhere. I have thought about the originality issue and find that it is too impractical to drive a 50 year old stock car very far from your base of operations (home for most of us), however using what you are planning on to build your car, you can get anything you need to repair that thing in most any city in the US. Thanks for the input.
 
#21 ·
396Wheelstand said:
This is what I have been thinking about. Use what you have and build it. By using common components available everywhere you can keep your machine on the road and repair anything anywhere. I have thought about the originality issue and find that it is too impractical to drive a 50 year old stock car very far from your base of operations (home for most of us), however using what you are planning on to build your car, you can get anything you need to repair that thing in most any city in the US. Thanks for the input.
That's true, but it still has to fit and work well.
 
#22 ·
Honestly, I think that is thought about and worried about WAY too much. I have heard that from people about running SBC motors. Tell me, are you going to rebuild the motor (or the suspension) on the side of the highway or something? :rolleyes: I build things so I can drive them anywhere without a problem. Outside of my 68 Camaro my first wife had when I met her, I have never owned a sbc powered anything. I have had a Chevy 235 six powered truck numeruous Buick powered cars from 300-350-364-401 and 455 motors. I have driven all over the western states in them. Towing trailers up to Oregon, with a 40 year old Buick! I have driven thru 29 states with my Windstar Ford van. I have never had the need to rebuild the motor or transmission out on the highway.

I think it that is a way over used cop out and honestly all it does is create more WORK when building the car, it does NOTHING else but provide a warm gooey feeling for the owner.

Brian
 
#23 ·
stimpy said:
man that"s narrow! whats the width of them cars ???

The track center to center on wheels is about 54 inches. I am exaggerating that they would hit each other, but they are HUGE, CLUMBSY front ends and one of these little cars is no place for one. The Camaro track is something like 61 inches. So that is about seven inches narrower, have you ever looked at how much room there is from the exhaust or head on a camaro to the upper control arm? Not much, bring it in three and a half inches and it is hitting it!



It is just WAY too big, too clumbsy that is all there is to it.

Brian
 
#24 ·
I did not mean to start a war just looking for info guys,BTW my center to center on my american which has mags measures 61-62 inches so gutting the front and fitting a Nova sub shouldnt be much wider, as far as clumbsy I just dont understand what that means, I do know from personal experience that having a water pump, fuel pump, generator or worse yet volt reg die on an obsolete car is a plan for a lot of time and or money spent particularly when you are in timbuctoo. I just prefer never to have those experiences again, and I have had plenty of them in my younger years. Regarding the original subframe issue, I once read somewhere in these posts that the Rambler used single sheet metal with a structural integrated design for its unibody frame. Chrysler corp used triple sheetmetal in its unibody design during the same time period, and speaking from experience if you have to do any cutting or altering you had better be prepared to buttress or strengthen your alterations as they are considerably weakened when altered. This is originally what started me thinking about a nova sub, that could be lengthened to the rear to tie in the spring perches. Cheers
 
#25 ·
Just like belly buttons, everyone has an opinion. :)

It's all good, I heard it said once on this forum, I don't know if I can believe it or not, but from what I understand "It's your car, do as you want". :)

You need to measure that track again though, I just did mine and the track (center to center of the wheels) was about 54 inches.

Hey, get some clip under it and see if it work for you. :thumbup:

Brian
 
#26 ·
just asking , I know the f body track is 60" when I saw the picture of the car I was likeman that thing is little , as for fitting with headers it would be a no go unless you go over the frame rails like they do with the nova's , I do pontiacs so the headers go between the rails no problem because of the down turn in the heads. it was just a thought , the only other thing I could see is a custom round tube front end from alston or a rectanguler front clip from ART
 
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