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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2013, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
The flow is only part of it, the harmonic tuning can have a HUGE effect on power, ram horn manifolds are not tuned.
Compared to block hugger headers though you won't see much of a difference, there will still be some but probably not more than 10 ftlb.
Again, it doesn't appear that power is a concern and there's nothing wrong with going with what is cheap and fits.
No, power isn't a really a concern and full-length headers are out of the question for the truck.

Btw though, if you look at the video that was taken of that dyno chart, they used dyno shop headers. It was a good test. For low rpms, I think you really have your estimated difference too high. Your thinking might be based more on 2" ram horns rather than 2 1/2". Also, most ram horn setups you see aren't using true dual exhaust as they have a crossover connecting both sides together.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2013, 11:56 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
No, power isn't a really a concern and full-length headers are out of the question for the truck.

Btw though, if you look at the video that was taken of that dyno chart, they used dyno shop headers. It was a good test. For low rpms, I think you really have your estimated difference too high. Your thinking might be based more on 2" ram horns rather than 2 1/2". Also, most ram horn setups you see aren't using true dual exhaust as they have a crossover connecting both sides together.
you usually lose power with a true dual exhaust, its used because packaging a 4" single pipe is not practical.

And while you have one dyno chart that shows no significant difference there are hundreds if not thousands of them that show otherwise.

I understand what you're trying to show but a single test that is supposed to disprove thousands of other tests really isn't going to show much.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2013, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
And while you have one dyno chart that shows no significant difference there are hundreds if not thousands of them that show otherwise.

I understand what you're trying to show but a single test that is supposed to disprove thousands of other tests really isn't going to show much.
Got some links?
Thousands with headers against 2 1/2" rams horns I would doubt. I think you would be hard pressed to find one. These only came on older Corvettes as far as I know. The dyno I showed does show a difference in the range you are talking when it is headers vs. 2" ram horns.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2013, 12:07 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Got some links?
Thousands with headers against 2 1/2" rams horns I would doubt. I think you would be hard pressed to find one. These only came on Corvettes as far as I know. The dyno I showed does show a difference in the range you are talking when it is headers vs. 2" ram horns.
I'm not just talking 2.5" ram horns, I'm refering to all cast iron factory manifolds, from Honda gocarts to F1, a properly built and tuned header ALWAYS produces better results, and usually VERY significant ones.

As for sbc stuff most manufacturers have dyno sheets available on their websites or catalogs.

Vizard goes into some detail in his SBC books and I've read some other stuff in Ford, Datsun, and Olds literature.

Even the factory has offered headers as a performance upgrade and has dyno charts to show where their own manifolds fall short.


To think that those 50 year old ram horns are somehow magical and are a singular anomaly is wishful thinking at best.


That being said I see no problem with running them, after all you are running a TPI 305, not some tricked out engine aimed at 350+hp.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2013, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
I'm not just talking 2.5" ram horns, I'm refering to all cast iron factory manifolds...

To think that those 50 year old ram horns are somehow magical and are a singular anomaly is wishful thinking at best.

That being said I see no problem with running them, after all you are running a TPI 305, not some tricked out engine aimed at 350+hp.
Your last statement is the bottom line for me, yes.

But the other stuff you added isn't pertinent to the subject. That dyno test was a good one to show exactly what was tested. Nothing magical. Just that 2 1/2" Chevy ram horns compare well to headers on a 383 under 6000 rpm. Certainly it can't be assumed from that that all factory cast iron manifolds are equal to headers. Wasn't it obvious I wasn't doing that? Find me another test that contradicts this particular dyno test. I'm open minded.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-28-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
Your last statement is the bottom line for me, yes.

But the other stuff you added isn't pertinent to the subject. That dyno test was a good one to show exactly what was tested. Nothing magical. Just that 2 1/2" Chevy ram horns compare well to headers on a 383 under 6000 rpm. Certainly it can't be assumed from that that all factory cast iron manifolds are equal to headers. Wasn't it obvious I wasn't doing that? Find me another test that contradicts this particular dyno test. I'm open minded.
If I had the time I would start looking, but I'm busier than a one armed wallpaper hanger.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 08:35 AM
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Question (for the stock '91 305 TPi I'm putting in the '57 truck with 2 1/2" ramhorn manifolds):

I'm planning on running a 2 1/4" dual exhaust system using Dynomax Super Hemi Turbo mufflers.

Do you think I would see any benefit if put in an H pipe crossover? H pipes are supposed to be good for low end power and keeping things quiet which I would like. But is it overkill for this 305?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
Question (for the stock '91 305 TPi I'm putting in the '57 truck with 2 1/2" ramhorn manifolds):

I'm planning on running a 2 1/4" dual exhaust system using Dynomax Super Hemi Turbo mufflers.

Do you think I would see any benefit if put in an H pipe crossover? H pipes are supposed to be good for low end power and keeping things quiet which I would like. But is it overkill for this 305?
you could just run a single to save you some money. Dual 2.25" can go into a single 3" quite nicely. You need to make sure your transition is good though.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 09:02 AM
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you could just run a single to save you some money. Dual 2.25" can go into a single 3" quite nicely. You need to make sure your transition is good though.
Thanks, but I think the piping would be a little more complicated for me to run without taking it to a muffler shop for pipe bending.

If I go with duals, I can buy 2 - 90 degree fittings and the rest straight pipe and do the job myself without any custom bending. I have to buy 2 mufflers that way but no labor charges. Since this is a pickup, I don't need tail pipes either. I can just put some angle turn downs on the back of the mufflers.

An H pipe wouldn't be hard to do in addition to that with a $50 kit but I just wonder if it would give me any benefit or not to justify that cost.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 10:52 AM
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H pipes are supposed to be good for low end power, and you can use a more open muffler and still keep the tone down to a pleasant low rumble. If its only a $50 addition, I think I would do it.

When I had the duals made for my GMC K25 I was on a budget and did not spend the money for an H-pipe or the upgrade from 2" to 2 1/2" pipes since it was just a stock 350 with iron manifolds. However, now that I am looking at a switch to headers I keep kicking myself for not making those simple upgrades when I had the exhaust installed.

Bruce
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 75gmck25 View Post
...When I had the duals made for my GMC K25 I was on a budget and did not spend the money for an H-pipe or the upgrade from 2" to 2 1/2" pipes since it was just a stock 350 with iron manifolds. However, now that I am looking at a switch to headers I keep kicking myself for not making those simple upgrades when I had the exhaust installed.

Bruce
Don't kick yourself too hard because most custom exhaust won't last more than 5-7 years. Depends where you live and how much you drive of course but you'll wind up replacing it sooner than later... That custom bent exhaust doesn't last vs. stainless steel tubing, especially at any of the welds.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2013, 12:33 PM
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Don't kick yourself too hard because most custom exhaust won't last more than 5-7 years. Depends where you live and how much you drive of course but you'll wind up replacing it sooner than later... That custom bent exhaust doesn't last vs. stainless steel tubing, especially at any of the welds.
Certainly can be true and the situation is worse with dual exhaust because it takes longer to get the water out when the engine is started cold.

If an engine runs for a long enough period of time so all the condensed vapor is purged from the exhaust system every time the engine is started, the exhaust system will last much, much longer.
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