Hot Rod Forum banner

Rat Rod homemade grill

53K views 121 replies 14 participants last post by  Dragonoake 
#1 ·
Hey guys

Today I finished making my grill shell for my rat rod. Are there any unique
and cool ideas out there for the design in the shell?

I've seen some impressive spider webs and the original look of the simple
metal bars, and I'm on the fence of considering doing some type of spider
web. Opinions? Other ideas?

I've attached a picture of the grill shell I made.
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#60 ·
Motor mount cup on the block is ok...but the motor mount on the frame is totally not right.

Looks like the wrong year of rubber mount for that block cup(or part of the 2.8 V6 mount) sitting up on a paired angle iron or C-channel riser, that is then welded on the frame?? Looks cobbled up to me from that pic.

Sitting down where it should be, you should just be able to get your fingers between the bottom of the oil pan and the under engine crossmember.

Should be these plates bolted to frame(or make your own) ; http://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-4689/requiredparts/make/chevrolet/model/s10?prefilter=1

Then these rubber mount bolted to the adapter plate: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-602292/overview/make/chevrolet

Using the cups you have on the block.
 
#61 ·
No wonder it was so difficult to get the motor to mount to the mounts on
the frame.....

Well.....would it be dumb to simply move the existing mounts being used
on the frame now to where the motor should be mounted? Or is there
a reason that I need new mounts? The ones that are on there now seem
to work fine...
 
#63 ·
The mounts are standard issue clam shell style and there isn't much you can do to get the motor any lower in the front. You need to raise the rear to get the carb level. That will require cutting the firewall/tunnel for clearance which is standard issue too when you channel a body that low on a frame. You need to find the clearance in the pan.
On the carb being level, that is the important item here. As it sits, it may run too rich because the fuel is high at the back of the bowl from such a severe slant.
Once you have the engine/trans where it needs to be you need to check the pinion angle and use shims under the axle pads to adjust it, if necessary.

The way it sits right now may cause running issues and a vibration on the road from the driveshaft at too much of an angle.

Any time you start chopping a chassis and making changes the FIRST thing that needs to be done is to get the drivetrain back in proper orientation and THEN build the body around it.
 
#64 ·
If I raise the rear, that will also raise the transmission which will put it at
an even worse angle from the tail to the rear end.

This is my first build so I didn't think, until the near end of the build, that
I would need to shorten the frame for it to look right...but, I did.

I may be out of luck with a successful build on this one.
 
#75 ·
Thanks to everyone for the encouragement.

New Interiors: That's the look I really like, but didn't have the patience or time in the beginning to build the frame and piece it all together, so I went with the s10 frame. I'm happy with the look, being my first build, but just want the motor and trans to be/look correct.

Hopefully like we've all said, I can move the motor back and level it out and sit it down in the mounts I use or make with no problems.

Next build I'm definitely building my own frame.
 
#76 ·
I understand... The thing that will be a problem.. You can only go so low before you hit the cross member... You can pick up the back end some.... The thing I see is... The cab is sitting low on the frame..Which is nice to give it a nice look.. But it's throwing everything out of whack..So your back is against the wall with this... Good luck with it...;)
 
#80 ·
Ok everyone here's a quick update.

I haven't had time to do any changes to the motor or trans, but today we planned out what
we are going to be doing next weekend. We are definitely going to pull the motor and trans
and cut the current motor mounts off and make new ones.
I'm taking everyone's advice and moving the motor and trans back closer to the firewall and
lowering it an inch or two as well.

I was able to get a closer pic of the mounts like they are now.
 

Attachments

#84 ·
I never noticed that huge c channel in the other pics. That was unnecessary by the PO. Getting that out of there will help a lot and I would be looking at changing out the clam shell on the block to early style mounts too. Those 2 changes will drop the engine at least 2". Can't see detail of the frame stands, but they might be correct for the early style block mounts.

In fact, I would lift the engine and remove one block mount to see if just changing that would be enough to get the engine at the proper level. You can get cheap India mounts for $5 to mock it up.
 
#81 ·
Glad to hear you are sticking with it :thumbup:

Are the pieces bolted to the c-channel the actual GM encapsulated rubber mounts used by GM in the late 70's and most 80's Chevy's?? (which is what would go with that block cup mount)...or are they a stamped steel piece with no rubber?? Which was 60's early 70's and goes with a mount that has the rubber on the block side??

Looks like a mix and match going on.

This is what matches your block cups : http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pio-602292/overview/make/chevrolet
 
#82 ·
I don't think any part of the mount was rubber...but when I cut these mounts off and move the motor back, I may have a hard time finding a mounting point on the frame because the frame "dips" right behind the current mounting point. This means I'll have to make new mounts. I am ruling out buying new mounts, so I'm open to ideas of making them...or possibly adding on to the mounts being used now.
 
#86 ·
The C-channel is that rusty piece of beam welded to the frame, that looks to have an older style GM frame stand bolted to it, and then the newer style GM cup bolted to the engine block. Why the C-channel is even there you'd have to ask the "mullet mechanic" :rolleyes: that put it there.

New mount would just be basic fabrication...get engine back and down where you want it, and block it up along the oil pan rail at that point with wood blocks, then just figure out how to connect your chosen block mount style to the frame, whether it is an extension made of steel plate, angle, rework some of that c-channel or some type of square or rectangle or round tubing...just put your thinking cap on and connect "flap A with tab B" and weld as needed to the frame.

Dragonoake's mention of the late 60's Chevrolet rubber engine block mount as being one of the easiest to work with is a sound idea.
 
#88 ·
Here is a pic of a motor mount for a '67 Camaro 327.
It will replace the clam shell on the block and has a thru bolt for the frame stand that is now on the truck. It is a very common mount across the Chevrolet line for most of the mid sixties to early seventies. This alone would drop the engine substantially. This also is the safety locking style. Here's a link to NAPA for it. I would get a pair of these and see how much it lowers the engine before cutting off the c channel.

NAPA AUTO PARTS


 
#89 ·
That's the same mount I was looking at from a local shop I found that has
these. I agree that using these mounts would lower the motor close to
where I would need it. In order for me to move the motor back towards
the firewall though, I would have to cut the c channel off since it would not
be usable in its current place. Could I cut the c channel off and move it back
to where the motor will sit? I will have to someway make another steel plate
to mount it to on the frame.
 
#90 ·
If it was me, I would change out the mounts and see where you're at. At the least, you will know if you need to lower it further and have a visual of how much more and how far back you want it. I think this is a better approach than just yanking the engine, cutting stuff up and then trying to figure it out. This would be a good first step in planning the next move towards your goal.
 
#91 ·
Myself, I would want that rusty piece of c-channel gone from where it is now, it just looks terrible, even if the right mount got the engine lower the channel just looks like crap(I'm being nice here). Might be able to clean it up, round the edges, notch one side or something to reuse it farther back and down, but it would not remain where it is if it was mine.

I'd get the engine down and back to where it had good proportions with the cab, and build what was needed to hold it there....do it right and be happy with it, rather than do it half way and say "meh, close enough".

You know in your mind where it will look the best, build to that vision and not take the easy way out or compromise unless there is no other choice like steering or some other clearance issue gets in the way.
 
#92 ·
Thanks for all the advice guys. It has really helped in my decisions.

This weekend I am going to mock up where I want the motor to sit
and see what my options are of putting the mount where it needs
to be on the frame. Then after that I will have to make a new
crossmember for the transmission.
 
#93 ·
Here's an update!

Got the motor and trans pulled today and moved it back where I want it.

I agree with everyone that it looks A LOT better.

I have not made new mounts yet, but I did take those clam shell mounts
off. I'm thinking about making some mounts with 1/4 inch metal.

Is there anything in particular I need to worry about when making the
mounts? Or can I just do what works and makes it stout?

I'm thinking about using the bolt holes on the front of the motor and coming
off with some sort of mount...maybe making a mount where the clam shell
mounts were and bolting/welding the mount to the frame somewhere.

Here's a few pics to reference where I'm at.
 

Attachments

#94 ·
I see an aluminum bellhousing whether auto or manual. With that, you don't want to mount the engine on the front. Too much stress on the 6 bolts and aluminum ears holding the bell to the block. Chevrolet did use the front of the block on the first V-8 installs but the trans mounts were on the bellhousing right at the block and the bell was cast iron.
Better to design a new stand on the frame and use the rubber engine mount.
You're going to be able to lay the radiator back a lot more too. That will help the overall look to "flow"...:cool:
 
#95 ·
Solid mounts with no rubber tend to make the chassis rattle and "buzz", which you might find annoying, but here are some mounting examples to give you ideas...They have simple rubber "isolators" also...

Speedway Motors is calling these front mounts(which they aren't really), but they bolt to the side of the block at the same spot the factory mount did, and are made to fit over a bolt hole or stud on a flat section of frame or a flat tube extension off the frame : Steel Small Block Chevy Front Motor Mounts - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop. Here's another version :
Small Block Chevy Steel Side Engine Mount Kit - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop And a very fancy version made to mount with a set of frame taps with a cross hole :
Billet Aluminum Black Small Block Chevy Motor Mounts - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop


Here is something that would be used with a mount that came off the front of the block should you choose to do that, these would go back at the bellhousing to block bolts, and are commonly called "batwings" by circle trackers : Steel Rear Motor Mounts, Chevy - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

Here's an actual front saddle mount that bolts to the lower front block bolt holes : 1955-1994 Small Block Chevy Engine Mount - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop You could use these bolt holes without all the saddle material, and pair it up with something like the batwings.

Speedway Motors has literally 100's more, just go a look around in the Oval track, Street Rod, and T-bucket sections to get ideas for yourself to copy or for inspiration.;)
 
#97 ·
Here's what I got from advanced auto parts today. The guy told me it's what I need to mount to the frame, and then get mounts to put on the motor to mount to these. Thoughts? It's got the needed rubber inside. What I thought about and what the guy suggested was to get a half inch steel plate and weld/bolt it to the part of the frame where that ugly plate was (where the motor was originally mounted) and have however much needed hanging towards the firewall to match up to where the motor mounts would be, and mount what I bought today to that.
 

Attachments

#99 ·
You're on target now :thumbup:

The mount you just purchased, mounted on a 3/8" thick plate just like you described, is exactly how one of the versions of the Trans-Dapt S-10 V8 swap kits is done....use your existing block mounted "clamshell".

Because you don't have the stock S-10 firewall in the way, you may be able to get farther back and lower with the engine, but use the same basic idea, weld a new plate to existing frame as needed...and get the engine where you think it looks the best in proportion to the cab length and cab height/hood line. ;)
 
#101 ·
Hey guys...I spent all day today trying to figure out how to make side motor mounts and came to find it's just not do-able. There is no level place on the frame below where the mounts on the motor are. The front of the motor lines up with the plate the original mounts were, so I believe my best/easiest route would be to go with front motor mounts. Are there any problems with solely going with the front mounts and the trans tail mount? I've attached a picture from the internet of something like I could do. Where could I get the circular rubber part that goes on the frame that is in the picture? I can make the arm that goes to the motor.
 

Attachments

#103 ·
Hey guys...I spent all day today trying to figure out how to make side motor mounts and came to find it's just not do-able. There is no level place on the frame below where the mounts on the motor are. The front of the motor lines up with the plate the original mounts were, so I believe my best/easiest route would be to go with front motor mounts. Are there any problems with solely going with the front mounts and the trans tail mount? I've attached a picture from the internet of something like I could do. Where could I get the circular rubber part that goes on the frame that is in the picture? I can make the arm that goes to the motor.
I answered that question in a previous reply. The bellhousing of the trans will eventually break from the strain. The original front mounts had a bellhousing with the rear mounts at the block/bell joint to support the weight.
 
#102 ·
Speedway Motors, or Chassis Engineering (linked by Too Many Projects, above) have the cushions.

Universal Bolt-Through Engine Mount Cushion Kit - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop.

You'll want to fab-up or buy something like the "batwings" linked here, to go at the bellhousing to block area, or risk breaking the bell housing with just front engine and tailshaft mount. Automatic transmission bells are awful thin, and not meant for this type of front mounting, so definitely come up with some type of mid support. Back in the 50's when Chevy was doing front engine mounts, they all had wings on the transmission bell to hold the rear of the engine/trans up. Bells with cast-in ears were all thicker material, or cast iron

Steel Rear Motor Mounts, Chevy - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop

What you've got looks good, cushions there, "bats" and cushions at mid point, and rubber trans tail and you are solid and good to go :thumbup:
 
#104 ·
So those batwings mount on the rear of the motor? I guess I have some bolt holes back there...I haven't even paid any attention to that. I really wish there was a way to use the side mounts since that is the best support area...but the frame bends and turns multiple ways where I would have to weld something to support the mount going up to the mount on the motor.
 
#110 ·
Get the cardboard out and start cutting templates.
Use two pieces of 1/4" steel plates and then a piece across the top.

There's always a way to get around from the chassis to the mount plate. It just needs a little "hotrodding" ingenuity.

The mount in the pic had to sweep down and then up to clear the steering shaft. Cardboard templates and then cut from 1/4" plates.

 

Attachments

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top