Re-finishing One Panel at a time a bad idea? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:30 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MO
Posts: 153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re-finishing One Panel at a time a bad idea?

I'm working on a project right now that will be easier with my off and on schedule to do a panel at a time rather than trying to tackle the entire project all at once. But I can imagine that maybe this is a bad idea. I've never tried it. I do guitar finishing regularly (for a living) but have only sprayed a few cars (touchups on panels). So forgive my ignorance here!

I plan on sanding the given panel to bare metal then
-SPI Gray Epoxy Priming with 2 coats 30 minutes apart
wait overnight
-Spray 2x Color coats
wait overnight
-Spray 2x Clear coats (Production Clear)

I think that'd be the usual schedule with these SPI products. But what I'm wondering is if the panels will match if I do them one at a time. I'm sure there are a lot of factors that could make things look mismatched if gone wrong such as color mix batch to batch, spray angle and wetness, etc.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2013, 03:39 PM
killeratrod's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,298
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 170
Thanked 420 Times in 376 Posts
you can prep a panel one at a time but for a quality finish paint should flow.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2013, 06:32 PM
swvalcon's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: rust on lt body shell
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: mn
Age: 64
Posts: 1,016
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts
Depends on what color your going with. Some can be painted one panel at a time and when done everything reassembled very carfully. Thats what I'am doing on my 64 stude GT hawk.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	2002-10-29 08.02.19.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	59.5 KB
ID:	75469   Click image for larger version

Name:	2002-11-06 08.05.24.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	61.2 KB
ID:	75470   Click image for larger version

Name:	2002-11-06 08.05.39.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	59.9 KB
ID:	75471  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to swvalcon For This Useful Post:
tech69 (07-08-2013)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-08-2013, 08:18 PM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 2,076
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 577
Thanked 232 Times in 211 Posts
when you spray metallic you want everything to be on the same plane as it is sitting on the car. This means if you paint your doors on a stand it won't match your quarter cause your quarter is horizontal. So the metallic flake will settle more on the door on the stand than it would on your quarter, causing a mismatch. More settling of flakes means a darker tint, the closer they are to the surface means it will be a hint lighter. Temps and reducer amount also play a role in this too. So in general, it's not really wise with metallics. Even if you spray it on the same plane maybe you didn't mix the can the same, maybe the temps are different, maybe you're spraying it different, or something just isn't the same as when you sprayed it the first time. A lot of things can cause a mismatch when pressing for it. With solids not so much an issue.

Tomorrow I'll take a pic of what I mean. We have this 300 here and the gas door was painted separate than the body, and it's noticeable probably even in a pic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 08:20 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MO
Posts: 153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Tech, that makes sense. I know metallics can look dramatically different depending how they're sprayed. At least if I have any variation in my technique (I'd like to think I'm pretty consistent but there's no way I'm consistent enough I'm sure), it'd be on the opposite end of the vehicle and not the panel immediately next to the other.

The thing I'm a little cautious about is letting the truck be bare metal for too long. I know it'll take me a couple weeks to get it all buzzed down with the way the schedule is looking right now. Is this ok? I can just picture it rusting with the humidity and rain here.

I know I could prime it and let it sit but since I'll be using SPI Epoxy Primer I'd like to get it sprayed in the window I have to let the paint chemically bond instead of having to scuff it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 08:29 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MO
Posts: 153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by swvalcon View Post
Depends on what color your going with. Some can be painted one panel at a time and when done everything reassembled very carfully. Thats what I'am doing on my 64 stude GT hawk.
I think the reassemebled very carefully will be the key! Not sure if I'm careful enough to hang panels without a scratch. Of course this won't be as much of a 'sweet ride' as it will be a daily driver (2nd gen Cummins truck - which I do love by the way but more in a functional way than as a show piece). That 64 looks great! It looks like a solid color (non metallic) so I suppose that helps with match as tech69 pointed out with spraying metallics in separate sessions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 08:35 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,728
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 207 Times in 166 Posts
if shooting bc/cc you will be fine . i paint everything in pieces. sometimes months apart .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 09:02 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,209
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,340
Thanked 1,169 Times in 1,031 Posts
The thing is it takes skill in applying it EXACTLY the same on each panel. I have seen pros who paint every day not be able to pull this off. It fascinates me actually, how can you paint a fender on a rack in the booth next to the door and hood that are bolted on the car and have that fender be a different color? It blows me away that I have seen guys who simply can NOT pull this off, the fender will be a different color simply because the application was slightly different than the door and the hood, amazing really.

We are talking even with solid colors!

Here is an article on painting in pieces or together with some tips on the subject. Spraying - Autobodystore

And a little bit on painting each panel with a consistency. Spraying Technique - Autobodystore

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 09:40 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,728
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 207 Times in 166 Posts
agreed brian . getting full coverage or true color is the key. get it covered , denib it and do a finish coat . position of parts really has little to do with it. base does not flow .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 09:46 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: MO
Posts: 153
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Brian, that was interesting with that bit on Len's site about Toyota and how they paint then disassemble then reassemble. I would have never thought.
Len's a good guy. I've purchased from him a number of times and he knows his stuff.

Shine, does it make a difference in your experience with spraying a piece at a time with metallics?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:01 AM
TucsonJay's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 819
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 99 Times in 77 Posts
I learned my lesson on a '40 Ford coupe.

Custom mixed orange pearl color...
painted the doors off of the car...
Hung them vertically...
exact same paint mix, and very thoroughly mixed at time of spraying to keep metallic suspended...
Same pressure, distance, timing of the passes, and spray pattern!

They looked great on the car... until I moved it outside under natural light!!!

Then they did NOT match!

The difference was slight, but it was there! I'll never do that again! {:-(

Why take the chance? Do what you KNOW will work!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:16 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,209
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,340
Thanked 1,169 Times in 1,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay View Post
I learned my lesson on a '40 Ford coupe.

Custom mixed orange pearl color...
painted the doors off of the car...
Hung them vertically...
exact same paint mix, and very thoroughly mixed at time of spraying to keep metallic suspended...
Same pressure, distance, timing of the passes, and spray pattern!

They looked great on the car... until I moved it outside under natural light!!!

Then they did NOT match!

The difference was slight, but it was there! I'll never do that again! {:-(

Why take the chance? Do what you KNOW will work!
That is exactly how I see it. Now, on that 40, to have the hood, doors and trunk lid on and the fenders off, that would be cool. The way the fenders fit they could be off a tad and you would never see it. But that door in the middle of the side of body, that is a whole different story!

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:29 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,209
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,340
Thanked 1,169 Times in 1,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by shine View Post
agreed brian . getting full coverage or true color is the key. get it covered , denib it and do a finish coat . position of parts really has little to do with it. base does not flow .
IF and this is a BIG IF they are painted exactly the same. The problem with laying a door on it's back and painting it is by human nature we slow down a bit and apply it a little heavier than on that vertical panel next to it. How the metallic lays, just a tiny change will change the color. We apply it a little slower and with a little more overlap, just human nature. It can be overcome as you have proven but that is the problem.

As I am sure you have seen I have watched painters do the damnedest things when it comes to application and color matches. For instance, how about spraying a test card for color matching? I have watched a painter bomb the paint on that card to cover it fast, then hold that card up to the car checking match! I am not kidding, he would BOMB that color on the card. How in the world did he expect it to match when he painted the fender on the car NOT bombing it on like that? He was the worse color matcher I have ever seen, and this was one of the problems. One time he had a car with a poor match and he was complaining about the paint brand we were using. He said he matched the color but it "changed". The spray out card matched but it "changed" when painted on the car. I calmly said how that was the evidence like a finger print at a crime scene, evidence that the paint on the card and the paint on the car was applied differently. It had nothing to do with the paint it's self, that was the same, right? SOMETHING was different about the application, not the paint. He wasn't buying it! LOLOLOL, amazing.

Todays waterbornes are even worse. Just change the air pressure a tad, just a few pounds and the color will be different. I did a "let down" card just by changing the pressure with each application. It was amazing how different the different applications where.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 10:47 AM
TucsonJay's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 819
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 99 Times in 77 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
That is exactly how I see it. Now, on that 40, to have the hood, doors and trunk lid on and the fenders off, that would be cool. The way the fenders fit they could be off a tad and you would never see it. But that door in the middle of the side of body, that is a whole different story!

Brian
That is my experience. The fenders meet the body at an angle, which always changes the appearance a little with a metallic or pearl... but the door is parallel and more likely to be visible. The difference was slight, but bugs me if "I" can see it.

I showed the owner, who could barely see it, and declined my offer to try again, at my cost of course.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	40b-001.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	126.5 KB
ID:	75488  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 11:00 AM
shine's Avatar
SPI Thug
 

Last journal entry: some progress
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: bluff dale texas
Posts: 2,728
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 207 Times in 166 Posts
no different to me if metallic or solid. i'm sure there are some colors it might effect but i would still rather have it all painted before assembly . this is one of those finicky gm colors. i do use a good gun and that can make all the difference in the world.

water and i will ever dance . i will retire first. but in reality i retired this year . my battle is done . i learned from my mistakes over the years and shrived to not make them again. too costly .
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	first clear.jpg
Views:	86
Size:	50.9 KB
ID:	75491   Click image for larger version

Name:	56 done resize.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	108.5 KB
ID:	75492  
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
67 GTO, LeMans body. Good Idea? Bad Idea? GoatGuy Hotrodding Basics 54 06-08-2011 10:54 AM
Good idea? Bad idea? smharbert79 Engine 2 07-18-2009 11:27 AM
I'm here..and like a bad penny, I'll turn up from time to time Pinstriper Introduce Yourself 2 02-15-2006 02:37 PM
Body panel finishing Mikey_mike Body - Exterior 6 01-17-2006 07:33 AM
1988 chevy s-10 blazer, and i want to put a 327 in it. comments, good idea bad idea. 1969css Introduce Yourself 1 12-22-2004 05:18 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.