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Old 04-08-2004, 07:56 PM
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Read This!!!!! Very Important!!!

Under pressure from the major Detroit automakers, the engine oil manufacturers have removed the zinc additive from engine oil. The really bad news is that this increases camshaft and follower failure rates enormously during the break-in time. If you can find a zinc additive for engine oil, that helps greatly. GM's EOS break=in lube has been a faithful option, too. I have heard that the Valvoline racing oil that's labled "not for highway use" may still have the zinc in it. Napa has made a commitment to keep this oil in stock.

There have been no changes in camshaft or follower materials or heat treatment from ANY of us in the racing aftermarket. The increased failure rates are due to the missing zinc in addition to the usual assembly related problems we've been discussing the last thirty years or so. Keeping open spring pressures as low as possible is now more important than ever.

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Old 04-08-2004, 08:28 PM
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Wow, that sucks
thanks for the heads up
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Old 04-08-2004, 08:59 PM
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Your tax dollar$ hard at work. Keep electing tree huggers and we soon won't need to worry about IC engine problems, they will be illegal!
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Old 04-08-2004, 09:12 PM
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Williys incase you haven't notice Repulicans are in control of the wheel right now.
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:05 PM
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Republicans might be behind the wheel at the moment... but think about the tree-hugging aspect... His name is BUSH!
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Old 04-08-2004, 10:44 PM
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Why would the automakers want zinc removed? What good does it do?
How does that effect synthetic oils?
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Old 04-08-2004, 11:58 PM
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I'am not a tree hugger, but I do understand that big business is, and will continue to kill us off with toxic waste chemicals if they can save a buck or two so they can provide the stock holders the profits they demand since we've "outsourced" 3 million jobs this past year!!, no matter the cost to the rest of us.


I doubt the auto makers had much to do with this, or the oil companies either. Amsoil has the MOST added Zinc of almost all other oils, so it may be one of the ones hit first and the hardest, but thats just a guess. Time will tell.

Most of the pressure to remove Zinc from automotive oils came from studies done in California, which, by the way, pumps approx. 136 metric TONS of Zinc into the air annually.

Zinc, like lead, is classified as a "heavy metal", meaning it is almost impossible to destroy in almost any combustion process. Zinc is a known cancer causing agent and a bigger hazard to the enviroment than lead was/is.

Less than 15% of ALL motor oil and transmission fluid is re-refined back into a lubricating oil. Another 10% is partially re-refined into home heating oil. Almost all the remaining one billion gallons turned in each year in the U.S. is resold "as-is" as fuel oil, being burned in industrial furnaces and foundrys in the U.S. and over seas, mainly China, which is in the boom of its industrial age. When the oil is burned in this fashion, the Lead and Zinc are not distroyed and go back into the air, again!


Hopefully, some one will come up with a replacemant additive for the engine oils soon. Hate to see my new engine go south.

I"m J Mark and I approve of this post!

Last edited by Jmark; 04-09-2004 at 12:12 AM.
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Old 04-09-2004, 05:40 AM
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I hate to tell you this, but zink is not classified as a heavy metal the atom number is 30, so it falls in the "Transition Metals" category, it is not accumulated in tissues as its oxides are water soluble and accute zink poisoning (called welders fever) will go away in a week or two assuming the intake is limited. also OSHA has not set any Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) infact OSHA Vacated the PEL in 1989, and the NIOSH Recommended Exposure Limit (REL) is stated as: No limits set by NIOSH.
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Old 04-09-2004, 07:50 AM
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I'm not sure where you heard this, but I cant believe that oil companys will all quit using zinc. There have always been oils with and without zinc. Amsoil has never added zinc to there oil, and valvoline has always had high amount of zinc content. I dont think we will see all oils stop adding zinc. Are you sure its not just the oil they are using off the assembly line?
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Old 04-09-2004, 07:59 AM
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This is a very interesting thread. As there are differing opinions being bandied about and being as I claim little knowledge about the subject, I will be paying much attention and saying little.
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Old 04-09-2004, 09:45 AM
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I worked doing groundwater remediation from 1992-2002 and not once did we investigate a site with zinc contamination. Chromium, TCE, Lead, Mercury, Petroleum prods., leachate, effluent, coal tar, fly ash, explosives, thorium, and a few others I can't think of right now, but never even heard of zinc as a contaminant.
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Old 04-09-2004, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by deuce_454
I hate to tell you this, but zink is not classified as a heavy metal the atom number is 30, so it falls in the "Transition Metals" category, it is not accumulated in tissues as its oxides are water soluble and accute zink poisoning (called welders fever) will go away in a week or two assuming the intake is limited. also OSHA has not set any Permissible Exposure Limit (PEL) infact OSHA Vacated the PEL in 1989, and the NIOSH Recommended Exposure Limit (REL) is stated as: No limits set by NIOSH.
I'm no chemist, but here's the article from the American Chemical Society.

Brainsboy......

Quote:
"Amsoil has never added zinc to their oil, and valvoline has always had high amount of zinc content."
Ck the charts at the bottom of this page. Valvoline has almost 33% LESS added zinc than Amsoil.

From the Amsoil web site.
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Old 04-09-2004, 10:01 AM
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that was an interesting artical from "daily science" however

Here is the standard SAE ratings for oil

also the amsoil figuers you showed was for there synthetic

Notice amsoil has no rating for zinc.



Brand VI Flash Pour % ash % zinc
20W-50
AMSOIL* 151 507 -45
AMSOIL Series 2000* 155 474 -47
Castrol GTX* 122 440 -15 .85 .12
Castrol Syntec Blend* 135 440 -17 .105
Chevron Supreme* 140 428 -17 <1
Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0
Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9
Quaker State Perf.* 121 440 -20
Quaker State Motorcycle 140 440 -25
Red Line 150 503 -49
Shell Fire and Ice* 126 450 -10 .9 .12
Shell Truck Guard* 130 450 -15 1.0 .12
Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 .15
Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 .13
Ultra Chem 190 455 -34
Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
Valvoline DuraBlend 126 455 -17 <1.5 .125
Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12
15W-50
Mobil 1 170 470 -55
AMSOIL* 165 462 -49
AMSOIL* 171 464 -54
Castrol GTX* 143 415 -32 1.07 .12
Castrol Syntec Blend* 138 415 -33 .105
Castrol Syntec* 157 455 <-54 .102
Chevron Supreme* 150 419 -27 <1

Last edited by brainsboy; 04-09-2004 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 04-09-2004, 10:07 AM
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ah so now we resort to name-calling

Jmark in the article you refer to it clearly states that zink is harmfull it ecosystems and not to humans (or other mammals for that matter) it nowhere refers to zink as a heavy metal, which it isnt. period.! im not objecting to limmiting pollution or cutting down on additives. But you cant just manufacture facts like zink being a carcinogen and not expect people to object
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Old 04-09-2004, 10:35 AM
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I have to agree with deuce, also something I didnt like about amsoil claims is that they are trying to make it seem as the more zinc the more protection. Zinc is only helps to a degree. I'm not a chemist but from everything I have read says anything over .11% to .15% isnt going to offer more protection.

Whats interesting is they dont tell you how they tested the oils, or what method they used. There are several ways to test oil and all can be used to make your oil seem better then the competitions.

Also I noticed they compared there synthetic to conventioal oils, and only added in 2 other synthetic brands.

I have no problem with amsoil I just hate large companys who post bull crap marketing figuers...
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