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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:09 PM
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OK, I need to understand a few things...(sorry Sedanbob" but, this has been bugging me all night)...As I mentioned earlier in a post on this thread, I had a similar problem on a 37 Chevy I did a few years ago. Well I went and dug through some old records I had (I can't believe I found them as I had a fire about 4 years ago and a bunch of stuff got lost in the blaze) and I was running just over 5 inches of clearance between the axle and frame and still required to do more frame mods to resolve the bottoming out effect and get the full use of my suspension travel. Now, this is the last pre-war Rod that I did the complete design and build and I finished in 1999. It ran a Ford 9", with a 4 link rear.

I hope this question doesn't sound outlandish but, has suspension technology improved and changed that much for the 30's Rods in 1 and 1/2 decades or am I missing something. I am trying to understand how 3 1/2 inches of clearance less a 2 inch bump stop is going to do anything but bottom out?

Very seriously I would love to understand this.

Ray

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:34 PM
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You are correct - 1 1/2" of travel is not enough. That's why I thought these bump stops were too tall, unless they were much softer and progressively got stiffer. I am still waiting to hear back from my e-mail to Energy Suspension, but have been looking at other bump stops that are shorter. The clearance under full load also equates to the amount of travel left in the coilovers. I could change the height of where the coilover mounts to the rear end (it is adjustable) but the travel in the coilovers would remain the same. They would bottom out before the axle would. This might be a much stiffer suspension than you had? This is the standard rear suspension package (one of several) from Pete and Jakes for '33/'34 rods. I should probably also give them a call after the weekend for their recommendation.
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sedanbob View Post
You are correct - 1 1/2" of travel is not enough. That's why I thought these bump stops were too tall, unless they were much softer and progressively got stiffer. I am still waiting to hear back from my e-mail to Energy Suspension, but have been looking at other bump stops that are shorter. The clearance under full load also equates to the amount of travel left in the coilovers. I could change the height of where the coilover mounts to the rear end (it is adjustable) but the travel in the coilovers would remain the same. They would bottom out before the axle would. This might be a much stiffer suspension than you had? This is the standard rear suspension package (one of several) from Pete and Jakes for '33/'34 rods. I should probably also give them a call after the weekend for their recommendation.
OK, I feel much better now, The 37 that i built did have a nice ride without giving up height. It has a 454 lS6, lots of power but, in all honesty it could have hooked better with more aggressive rear suspension. Thank you, this has been bothering me all night and I lost sleep. I would love to hear what Pete and Jake's have to say as well, it might be good information for both of us and all on this forum.

Ray
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:23 PM
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69-Widetrack, Thanks for your interest and questions - they have made me look further into this. I just visited the Aldan American coilover website for more information. The total suspension travel on many of their units (not completely sure which I have - I'll find that out too) is in the 3.8" range, with the most being around 5". One page they have on how to set up your coilover shocks say if the travel is 3", plan on 2" compression and 1" rebound. They also said the shocks will be compressed about 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" at ride height. They also said the suspension should hit the bump stops before the shock bottoms out. Here is a link to that page: Aldan Eagle Shock Absorbers | Carson California | All Parts Made In America
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:44 PM
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This does all make sense...3 inches of travel with 2 inches compression and 1 inch rebound. My question is the limit of travel you have with 3,5 inches clearance and a 2 inch bump stop, with 0 travel being your center point, you have exactly 1.5 inches of travel either way and that's exactly when your suspension hits your stop...I hope I'm not missing something but it would appear as though your suspension is not being allowed to do it's full job. To me, and I could be wrong. it looks like a clearance issue. Upward travel is also dependent on load so when you've got a full tank of gas and passengers I would think the problem would be more noticeable, am I correct in that assumption?

I've thought about this so long and hard, I wish I was there to actually see it. Seeing it has got to be worth a 1,000 posts. Oh well hopefully they will get back to you tomorrow and have an answer.

Yet again, PLEASE, keep us informed.

Ray
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Old 10-28-2012, 03:52 PM
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Just a short note, I sincerely want your situation to get resolved but I have my own motives as well. I'm in the process of designing and building a project for a customer and the entire suspension is being upgraded to current and better handling components. I want to make sure that I'm not missing anything or have a misunderstanding.

Beautiful car you have...looks awesome and I know it will get resolved.

Ray
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Old 10-28-2012, 04:48 PM
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Thanks Ray! I agree that with the tall bumpstops, the suspension can't travel as it was designed to, perhaps with a shorter stop. The link to Aldan, and sites like Fatman's Fabrication, and Pete and Jakes should help you design what you need for your customer. There are some good instructions on the Pete and Jakes site to help you figure out different suspension designs. Fatman's has some really smart engineers that could help you determine what you need. Naturally, as you work that out, please share!
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Old 10-28-2012, 05:11 PM
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I will share as soon as I can...I just have this customer that came up with a very unique idea that's never been done before. When he told me about it I kind of looked at him funny but I couldn't help but keep nodding. It probably wasn't until I did an artist's rendering for him that I bought into the idea completely, it makes total sense and to be honest with you, it's consumed me for the past three months. I've done work for this fellow in the past and he is a rare breed, after we come up with a budget he has never complained about price, any extras or changes he understand cost money and has complete comprehension of time lines being guide lines....not set in stone.

Every build I've done for this guy has been extremely enjoyable but he is particular about fit, finish, performance, looks...the whole package. This is the first time he has asked to keep everything quiet and if he's paying I can't argue.

I haven't pick up a wrench yet and I have well over 100 hours into the project...all I can say is that it's a 69 Pontiac and parts will be rolling in soon. I just wish I could say more.

I thank you for all the information and I am spending many hours doing research in all these area's and one area that many people neglect is suspension. To many people buy a big motor and put on fancy paint and feel they have the complete package, they don't understand as you said about "smart engineers" required to create a user friendly build.

Thanks for the information and I will follow up, as I'm sure you've guessed, my suspension is not carved in stone yet.

I love it when I can throw my heart and sole into a project...so much more fun than painting the front clip on a Honda Civic.

Ray
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:50 PM
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I called the Energy Suspension tech line - not much help. I told them which ones I had purchased and why I didn't think they were right for the job, thinking shorted would be a better fit for me. The guy told me that they were all "about the same" hardness-wise and that I could cut the ones I had shorter. Cutting them would remove the tapered tip, which seems to be the softest part. So... I called Jason Slover at Pete and Jakes. He is sending me a pair of the bump stops they recommend. They are shorter, but I don't know yet how hard they are. He is shipping them today. As soon as I get them I will post a picture of them, and another once they are installed. Good guy to work with!
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Old 10-29-2012, 01:59 PM
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Thank You so much for keeping us posted.....I've been doing some research on my own and will let you know the results when I get something definitive. This post has been of great help to me and for the build I'm embarking on. It has made me revisit a potential problem I haven't seen in many years...Thanks Again
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Old 10-29-2012, 02:29 PM
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Bob...did you build this car yourself, or was it a custom build. The reason I'm asking is, it looks clean and appears to be a thoughtful build and just that nice cars always impress me.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2012, 04:10 PM
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Ray, I ordered the chassis from Pete and Jakes, and the fiberglass body from Redneck Streetrods. From there I plumbed it, wired it, figured out the steering column and linkage, and everything else. I built the dash extension and console out of fiberglass. I turned it over to Fast Eddies Streetrods (sister shop to Redneck) for paint, after I spent two weeks there getting it prepped for primer. They shot the color and clear, cut and buff, then gave it back to me to finish. I still have upholstery to do. My seats are being made as we speak. When they are done I'll turn the car over to the local trim shop to finish the interior. It's been about 4 1/2 years since I order the chassis, but managed to pay for everything out of pocket as I went along. Got it licensed last year and have a little over 900 miles on the odo. It's been a lot of fun! A '33 sedan has always been my dream car.
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:20 PM
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Beautiful car and I'm glad to hear you've done a bunch of work on it. So many people don't understand what goes into building a car until they do it themselves...to often people tell me about the cars that they built when they have only opened their wallet....I'm OK with people paying to get the ride they want...not OK with saying that they built it.

Love the Car
Ray
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:40 PM
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I know what you mean. I am always disappointed when I ask someone about their car, and they don't know, they just bought it. With the exception of the internals of the crate motor and the transmission, I have wrenched every nut and bolt on this car.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:11 PM
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I could tell just by the way your posts are written and the questions you have, I love hearing that you wrenched every nut and bolt.

I've been rather fortunate in my meager life. I have my license in both Mechanics and Auto Body and specialize in Paint (and making cars really straight). I love that part of the trade because to me it is an art form and a car is my canvas.

I made a few good decisions in the past and was fortunate enough to semi retire a few years ago. As I was building muscle cars and a few pre 30's rods as a labor of love during my whole working career I thought I would try and keep on building as a career. Remember I said semi retired...I think I'm working more now than ever but it's great. I pick what I want to work on, how much I charge, and in a lot of cases the customer lets me have in put as to what it's going to look like. It's a dream job and I get to use my talents doing what I enjoy, not painting the front fender on a Honda. I do no more than 2 cars a year and the next project will be at least an 18 to 24 month endeavor. Even at my age I have to say, I am giddy about this build and can hardly wait for the day the customer lets me tell people about it.

I looked at your car, read your posts and even though the picture was small, I just felt the passion you had for your ride.

Thanks again Bob, I thank you for this post because you really got my mind going in over time with the whole suspension thing.

Best to you
Ray
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