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Old 02-05-2011, 09:45 AM
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Rear brakes with no fluid

The front all MMII manual corvette master cylinder, discs on front (ECI). All the front works great. I have a proportion Valve from a 73' Bonneville. I had the line was fighting through the GM porportion valves. Once a friend to find that line to the front with big 9/16 wrench from master cylinder to the proportion valve on the big 9/16 wrench, and moved the rear line was changed on the side to the brake switch. I pulled the proportion valve, out of the car, I cleaned it, screwed that went to the rear side and took out the brass so that I could blow through all the orifices, (It was blockage). The brakes are all under the floor, and it worked good for 8 years.
I pulled all the double flares and they are good. I checked all the lines in the rear, replaced the hose new yesterday. When I loosen the front and rear loosen by the line on the brake cylinders. I had rebuild the rear brakes and they have been in the garage. Fluid goes only to the rear brake cylinders. It seems to have stucked, maybe I need to squirt some brake fluid into the cylinders to lube to work better.
NOW, I was told to buy the residual presssure valves, the blue 2 psi and red 10 psi would be better for all under the floor. I have a Knob style proportioning valve. All from wilwood.
This is driving me crazy! Help?

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Old 02-05-2011, 12:07 PM
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How’s that hopey-changey thing
 
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Question????? If someone were to hold pressure on the peddle and then you open the bleeder on the rear wheel cylinder.

Question???? Will you get a flow of fluid until the peddle reaches the floor.

If the answerer to this question is yes for both rear wheels ................. then yes the wheel cylinders are froze
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:42 PM
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Thanks pepi

I think the cylinders are frozed. The cylinders are new. I think I need to take them off and loosen the pistons?
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Old 02-05-2011, 02:58 PM
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How’s that hopey-changey thing
 
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If they set dry for an extended period, they may have corroded, you might be better off just buying new. They should not be to pricey, do not take a chance on brake parts. They might fail or start leaking, either is a friggen mess.
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Old 02-05-2011, 04:25 PM
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Hey Pepe

I just got out in the from to garage to house. I pulled the cylinders and put them in the clamp on the bench. I poured some brake fluid into the cylinders and pushed the pistons back and forward. There was no leakage any around the seals. I noticed some loose back plate nuts to axle, tight them up. I am going to go with those red and blue residuals. I believe tells the GM portional valve is bad. I need someone to pump the brakes, my wife doesn't like that, especially with 34 degrees.
Thanks Pepi
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Old 02-05-2011, 09:56 PM
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Footstomper

Are you adjusting the rear brake shoes so that they drag a bit. Adjust them so that the wheel drags, does not spin free. Does the emergency work?

The residual valves are good, will give you a firm pedal, I am adding a link that will help you troubleshoot the system.

http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-su...leshooting.cfm

I remember you saying that these brakes worked for 6 years or so and proportional valves are pretty darn reliable, not that they could not go bad, but I have never run across one that had. As long as the proportional valve passes fluid it most likely is good. The purpose of that valve is to allow the front brakes to come in sooner then the rear, making the front brakes do most of the work.

This link; read "How to plumb under the floor pedal kits"
http://www.mpbrakes.com/technical-su...igurations.cfm

This company provides good brake troubleshooting information. I hope the links will help you out. You can always PM if you like FYI..
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Old 02-06-2011, 07:27 AM
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Thanks for the experts

The front brakes are great, it is a ECI 5-1/2" pattern for the stock 40 wheels.
I have two lines from the discs, I talked to a CBI hot rod near my house. I was talking with him, he told that I would have to buy 2 residuals? (just if I go that way -proportioning valve or residuals) Could I just get a Tee to the lines and put the residual blue 2 psi front. I can't believe that. Another thing about the old proportioning valve, a friend told me that little ball with a spring in there. He has hammered on other portioning valve, with success with them unstuck. I tried to cleaning. I pulled the body off, sandblasting, welding MMII, boxed front and rear. The proportion valve may have got some in the valve.
Another, the cylinders in the drums, I pulled them off. Cylinders were very stuck, I noticed a loose back plate to the axle and I tighten all around. So, I loosen the shoes after cleaning and compressing and expanding with fluid. I left the cylinders at loose. I left the drums off. I tried it after to pushing the peddle. Nothing happened. I believe the proportion valve is damaged.
The only before with a 305 had a problem with skirts falling with the oil pump to. I had a 500 cadillac motor and made changes. The brakes were great.
Remember about having me to have 3 residuals? I thank you for to sent that figurations on proportion valves.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:57 AM
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The front brakes won't release after moving.

I drove 8 miles to a friend, we got on the rack, I pushed the peddle for 30 minutes and refills. The other guy to bleed the system. It worked good for about 5 miles. Even with that 500 cid 475 torque, I could barely to go over a hill. I finally I got home moving 15 mph. I was happy to get home. The rear drums were loose, and my friend told for me to adjust when you get time to snug the shoes. So I did that, and I drove around the neighborhood. I drove pretty good, but when I put in reverse, the front wanted to drag, I drove a little more and went to the garage. I put my hand on the rear drums, they were working and alittle warm. But the disks, they were very hot.
We did not use the residuals valves, we tried the old portioning valve. The pedal was stiff, as if it needed some 1". Could it be the disks did as the drums, maybe they froze too. I had bought another propotional valve from a 75 El Camino. All the proptional valves that I have done plumbed with a line coming out to the rear, but he put a line on the top and ignored the line to the switch. I might check on that line. There must have a plug in the rear of the propotional valve? My friend must be wrong on that.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:59 AM
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make sure your front brakes are not dragging. are your front brakes discs? if they are dragging when your not pressing the pedal its likely that you have a 10lb proportioning valve on the front (designed for drum brakes) and its causing the front to drag. if your front brakes are not dragging, disregard my message... heh
its possible if you manually installed individual valves for front and rear that you may have crossed them up, without a 10lb valve on the drums they will not be able to hold enough pressure to work quickly when you press the pedal. in any case, you should still be able to get fluid flowing...
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:30 AM
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Front disk and drums rear

I have a GM propotional valve like a 75 El Camino. I have been thinking about the residual valves. The blue front 2 lbs and red rear 10 lbs. I just tried with the GM propotional valve again. I backed and the front disk nearly would not move the front going forward. I had to fight it to move to get to my garage. I touched the rear brakes, they were warm. But the disk, they were hot!
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:58 AM
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so please help me clarify.
You have a 1975 El Camino distribution block, as well as the blue and red valves?
the stock distribution block acts as a proportioning valve for the stock application, if your 1975 El Camino distribution block was for a drum/drum application, and you added a blue valve then you will have 10 lbs from the el camino block and 2 pounds from the additional valve. this could be part of your problem up front, but again im not sure why no fluid is reaching the rear...
unless i misunderstood...
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:44 PM
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the car is a 40 ford coupe, with GM propotional valve

I got the propotional valve from a El camino in a junkyard. I am thinking with the residual valves, so far, I wanted to try with the junkyard first to make it to work right. No booster, corvette master cylinder under the floor. front has disks, rear is 9" with shoes and drum. I got the rear to work, the front disks are dragging. The dragging on the front, you could fight with the torque and still not move or slowly. The 40 has a 500 cadillac.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:17 PM
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all i can tell you is you need the proper proportioning for the front and rear.if your front are dragging than its likely that there is a 10 lb valve in the system. this forces 10 lbs of pressure to be held on the line. Disc brakes (when the M/C is below the cab) only require 2 lbs to hold enough pressure for operation. if you are holding 10 lbs of pressure i can see this causing the brakes to be under constant tension.
when i installed the brake system in my 1955 2nd series pickup, i didn't use any factory distribution block, just a "T" for the front lines with a 2 lb blue valve in-line before the "T" for the front disc brakes, and a single line going to the rear diff. with the pink/red 10 lb valve for my rear drums.

your best bet i think, is removing that distribution block completely and running proportioning valves in-line instead.

just my 2 cents...
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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one more thought... what year corvette master cylinder are you working with?
its possible that your master cylinder has a built-in valve that you dont know about... but i'm not sure...
if it was a disc/disc corvette master cylinder then I would continue with my previous recommendation. if your unsure of the master cylinder's intended design (drum/drum, disc/drum, disc/disc) then you may want to think about a new master cylinder setup for disc/disc and use the previously mentioned valves...

I am no brake expert, but have taken college courses on brakes. you just want to be sure the proportioning valves are correctly pressured for your system.

I chose this route because its likely that i will want to install discs in the rear later, and all i will have to do is remove the red 10lb valve and replace it with a blue 2lb valve
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:57 PM
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I went to the garage, the front is free now.

The corvette master cylinder was for 1969. Disk front and drum. Maybe after pouring gallons of bleeding yesterday (not really). The fluid caused of sticky on the pads. Maybe, I may try it today. Pray.
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