Rebuild vs Crate??? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2012, 01:06 PM
T-bucket23's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Engine basic condition - how to check Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 57
Posts: 5,243
Wiki Edits: 26

Thanks: 7
Thanked 120 Times in 105 Posts
You may need nothing more than a flexplate. Fix that first and then go from there

    Advertisement
__________________
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity



Chet
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2012, 06:35 PM
Bryan59EC's Avatar
Car? Truck? Who Cares
 

Last journal entry: First week of December
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 54
Posts: 2,369
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts
I have a 307 that had been sitting for about 6 years.
Took me that long to get the rest of the car re-done.
Put the same ol crappy 307 back in the car----and fired it up.

No smoke--no noise--

Will drive it til it quits----or the oil leak that developed while sitting gets too bad.

Car made it's maiden voyage onto the public streets yesterday morning.

(now I gotta remove the dash and get a new speedometer---makes a terrible noise)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2012, 02:41 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 13
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
my heads

Here are the heads. the shop didnt have the flexplate so will get that in a day or so.

A friend of mine wants to do a blowback test. So waiting for him on that. Maybe this weekend if its not raining we get the fp and try to drop the motor back in.

Some rust on the heads, ill look for a good way to clean that off...


Numbers on the heads.

Passenger side:
D 27 70
GM 14
3927185

Driver side:
D 24 70
GM 12
3927185



Why is one GM 12 and the other 14? Why D 27 and one D 24?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	head_drive1.jpg
Views:	183
Size:	1.52 MB
ID:	63942   Click image for larger version

Name:	head_drive2.jpg
Views:	169
Size:	1.53 MB
ID:	63943   Click image for larger version

Name:	head_drive3.jpg
Views:	168
Size:	1.47 MB
ID:	63944   Click image for larger version

Name:	head_pass1.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	550.0 KB
ID:	63945   Click image for larger version

Name:	head1c.jpg
Views:	172
Size:	1.52 MB
ID:	63946  

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2012, 03:01 PM
Silver Surfer's Avatar
More machine than man
 

Last journal entry: bwaahhaahahaaahhaa
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kansas City, MO
Age: 37
Posts: 806
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 92
Thanked 60 Times in 50 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinmack
Here are the heads. the shop didnt have the flexplate so will get that in a day or so.

A friend of mine wants to do a blowback test. So waiting for him on that. Maybe this weekend if its not raining we get the fp and try to drop the motor back in.

Some rust on the heads, ill look for a good way to clean that off...


Numbers on the heads.

Passenger side:
D 27 70
GM 14
3927185

Driver side:
D 24 70
GM 12
3927185



Why is one GM 12 and the other 14? Why D 27 and one D 24?
Here is info on your casting numbers: http://chevytech.info/3c3927185.html

I believe D is April. 70 is 1970. One was cast on the 24th the other on the 27th. Having a discrepancy of a few days is normal, not a big deal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2012, 06:00 PM
starnest's Avatar
elkyholic
 

Last journal entry: Center Link Installed
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia Beach
Age: 60
Posts: 327
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 4
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
OK - you've got 70 307 heads (small valve, 69CC) on a 67 327 block. It'll work fine for just cruising around. If everything checks out, I would replace the flex plate and put it in the car. If you have problems after that, you could rebuild it and with a few improvements make a hot little 327 with the right heads and cam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 06:58 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rock Tavern, NY
Posts: 1
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
here's my 2 cents and it worth exactly what you paid for it.

If it was me, I'd run it and see!!

Since it's out of the car, I'd do a couple of things before putting it back it.

Compression test as a couple of people have already suggested. If the compression looks good, pull the pan, and check the bearings, pull one main and one rod and see what they look like.

If they look good, replace the front seal and rear main seal , clean the oil pump screen, make sure the timing chain looks OK and then stick the pan back on with new gaskets.

Put it back in the car, and drive it!!

Bob
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:04 AM
solidaxel's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Project garage complete!
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: So. Arizona
Posts: 558
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 2
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by starnest
OK - you've got 70 307 heads (small valve, 69CC) on a 67 327 block. It'll work fine for just cruising around. If everything checks out, I would replace the flex plate and put it in the car. If you have problems after that, you could rebuild it and with a few improvements make a hot little 327 with the right heads and cam.

My Vote is for this also!!

While the engine is out check all gaskets and fix all the oil leaks, and maybe replace the freeze plugs in back of the flex plate "If they show signs of rust"

Replace the flex plate front balancer,.................... and maybe look at replacing the transmission with a 700R4 and drive the car like you stole it. until there is a major breakdown. then you can rebuild or replace as the dollars dictate.
What is the condition of the rest of the car?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:17 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,112
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 335 Times in 315 Posts
A good USED running 350 can be had for $500 or less, a 305 can be had for $300 or less. Either of these will be a fine replacement. There is no headaches of chasing down problems, its the cheapest option, and you will likely have MORE power. When buying a used one go with one that is fuel injected and is clean under the valve cover, best case scenario one that you can hear run (but that isn't always possible).

I would go the 350 route as it'll have more power and if you should ever sell the car is worth more than a 305. If you still want to add a little something extra I would get a chrome dress up kit, a clean aluminum intake, headers and an RV cam. That's what you'll see a lot of at car shows as its cheap and effective.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 07:22 AM
bsa_bob's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: britton mich
Posts: 346
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 63
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by starnest
I'm guessing it is a balance problem. The crank (w/rods/pistons) and flexplate weren't balanced together. - AND/OR - The harmonic balancer is bad (or the wrong one).

The flex plate was tightened down ...off center. not completely flat[fitted]on the crank. before the tightening down sequence began.therefore it just broke out at the shown point hth No other reason to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:03 AM
farna's Avatar
Member
 
Last wiki edit: AMC V-8s Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Batesburg-Leesville, SC
Age: 52
Posts: 1,636
Wiki Edits: 14

Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Yes, just check it out and run it. If it was running 5-6 years ago there is no reason it shouldn't run now. The rings could be stuck and give variable compression readings, but it will free up after a couple hundred miles of running. Make sure you drain the gas tank then pull and CLEAN it. Old gas leaves a residue which new gas (especially with ethanol in it) dissolves. The residue gets in the engine and gums up carbs/injectors and even valves. I've had it get into valve guides and cause the valves to stick open and bend pushrods. I've brought many old engines back to life after sitting for years -- you should have no real problems. Pull the fuel line and stick it in a gallon anti-freeze jug (or similar) with fuel in it for temporary running -- until you get the tank pulled and cleaned. Can't go far, but can run it enough to see what condition it's in and run around the block a few times.

The flexplate isn't a big mystery. I've ripped the center out of one on a little 195.6 Rambler six cylinder. Flexplates are a hardened steel, and get brittle with use and age. Cracks usually develop around the bolt holes first, either at the crank (most common, that's where most of the stress is) or where the converter bolts on. The bolts may have not been tightened properly causing excess stress, could have just been age, or the metal may not have been properly hardened.

Engine balance wouldn't affect the flexplate -- that would affect the crank bearings. A bad torque converter can put excessive stress on the flexplate though. A bad bearing in the converter can throw the converter out of balance enough to stress the flexplate, but the harmonic balancer or crank balance shouldn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:09 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 5
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Just went through the same thing

I shelled the 350 in my '37 Chevy Coupe about 4 weeks ago. The oil pump failed and the distibutor gear failed, don't know why, never seen it happen before. Anyhoo, I had a similar delemma. Rebuild or buy a crate 383 SBC. Called a buddy and he recommended a shop here in Jacksonville, FL. Called and they told me that they charged $70 to tear down my motor and tell me what it needed. I was happy to oblige as I could do it myself but am way too time short to do so. PLUS, when I bought the car, I was told the car had a 383 and I wanted to know whether it truly was. SUPRISE!!! I have a two bolt main 350. Good news was that it did have some good parts. Forged TRW pistons, Trick Flow twisted wedge heads(67cc) and decent rods. It had a Comp Magnum 292 H cam which was also damaged so I simply bought a new 292 Magnum(LOVE the sound and it works!) The motor was thouroughly cleaned, crank reground, new bearings and reassembled . They checked my heads and they were fine. Bill was $1,150 for parts and labor(I supplied the cam). I added a new Hurricane intake and should end up with a 420 HP 350. So for me, I am happy and I saved about $1800. It is not a four bolt, but it should hold up fine for occasional strip and weekend cruises. Putting it in this week.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:19 AM
Chopt 48's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Toppenish, washington
Posts: 452
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Ok, I'm a bit late to the party but I have a couple of questions.

How is the engine mounted in the car? Does it still use the factory front mounts and a rear mount on the trans or did who ever put the 327 in it install side mounts on the engine? Also were all of the bell housing bolts in place and were they tight?

It's been common knowledge for a lot of years that a Tri 5 Chevy running a V8 with front mounts and an aluminum case transmission can flex at the Block/bellhousing connection enough to crack the trans case or cause problems with the flex plate. I've also seen a couple of cases where loose bellhousing bolts caused a broken flex plate or knocked out the front seal in the transmission.

I'd do as a couple of the guys suggested and put a new flex plate on it and pull the plugs and run a compression test. You can see if the engine has oil pressure at the same time by connecting a gauge to the engine where the oil pressure line or gauge hooks up. Using a oil pump primer as was suggested earlier would be a good idea though as it gets oil up in the lifters and into the bearings.

You don't need a fancy stand and can hang the engine from a chain hoist or cherry picker to run the compression test as all you are doing is cranking the engine over so that each cylinder hits four or five times on the gauge, checking the reading and writing it down and going to the next cylinder. I've even started a lot of engines sitting on the ground or hanging from a chain hoist.
This is a short video from when I fired up a 500 Cad that my friend gave me for my 71 GMC the engine had been sitting for several years.
I couldn't run it more than about 30 seconds but I did find out that it ran ok. No engine stand or other equipment but as I said I only ran it long enough to hear it run and determine that it didn't knock or blow clouds of smoke.

As far as the 327 goes, if it is in good shape I'd either run it as is or rebuild it and put some better heads on it. 1. it gives the car a lot higher Bubba Factor with a 327 than a crate motor these days as a lot of guys still think a 327 is the Holey Grail of small block Chevy engines. 2. you already have it and can go several ways on it. You could run it as is if it checks out. You could do a complete rebuild with new pistons, new cam bearing, better cam and better heads or you could do a rering and bearing job and run the pistons you have if the cylinder bores are good with little taper.

If the insides of the engine don't look good then you can think about a different engine and think crate motor or rebuilt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:21 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rome, Georgia
Posts: 6
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
That broken flex plate is almost identical to one that came apart on me in a '64 Impala with 283 I had just done a re-ring on. I was 19 at the time and didn't know to check the flex plate when I re-installed the engine, so I convinced myself the thing already had stress cracks and came apart during a rubber burning start. I replaced it and the harmonic balancer (somebody suggested it, so I did it) and had no more issues with it. I bought a parts truck with a 4-bolt 350 in it a few years ago, and again, the flex plate had shed its center part, sheared off the torque converter bolts and destroyed the transmission housing.

Flush and check the engine, to include dropping the pan and cleaning out the settlings that's bound to be in there as others has suggested. Maybe you are lucky and will still have a good engine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:22 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: new hampshire
Posts: 2
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rebuild or crate

Personally I would rebuild but first thing I would do is go to a local salvage yard and buy a used but running 350 or 305 check around for the cheapest price. Install it in your 55 and enjoy it while you rebuild the 327. This way you can take your time on the rebuild. Also if you buy a 350 with vortec heads you could put them and the intake on the 327 too.
Then when the 327 is done you simply put the 305/350 in craigslist and get the money back. There is always looking for V8 chevy engines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2012, 08:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 10
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Sorry to join in late. BSA Bob is right, it is a misalignment problem. I have seen this many times but it does not usually progress as far as this example. Either there was some dirt or burr on the crankshaft hub or flexplate preventing it from mounting properly. Or, more commonly, the transmission was not in alignment with the block. Think of tilting the transmission at an angle to the block and not having a U-joint, Something has to give! There could have been dirt or a burr on the engine/transmission mating surfaces. The locator dowels in the block may have had dirt, rust, or a burr which would keep the transmission from pulling in totally flush. Also, and this is not as uncommon as you would think, the alignment dowels on the back of the block and/or the alignment holes in the transmission mating surface are actually out of spec causing the mis-alignment. Check http://www.wilcap.com/ALP.PDF to see how to check alignment or google "transmission to engine alignment", "belhousing alignment" etc. I know they show manual transmissions but it gives you an idea of what to check for. Any speed shop can get offset dowel pins to correct mis-alignment and Harbour Freight has a cheap dial indicator and base that can also be used for many other things such as crankshaft end play, setting differential gears etc. Because the cracking, and in your case, the eventual total failure of the flexplate takes quite awhile to happen, the flexplate is after all "flexible", people have been known to just replace the flexplate and solve the problem. If it was just dirt and/or a burr from a previous sloppy installation and this was taken care of during the new installation, then the problem is indeed fixed. However, if there is actual engine/transmission misalignment and this is not corrected when the new flexplate is installed, then the new flexplate will also fail somewhere down the road. As a side note, any actually mis-alignment will also strain and or fail the front transmission bearing. In either case we are talking about a fair amount of time here, it won't happen over a couple of weeks or even months, depending on usage.
I would clean and check all mating surfaces and the alignment dowels and then just to be on the safe side check overall alignment. As far as the engine goes, you have lots of good advice already. Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
350 generic crate, rebuild? Catfish11 Engine 3 02-15-2012 10:16 AM
Crate vs Rebuild markkr14 Engine 27 07-14-2009 07:19 PM
402 rebuild or crate motor rob68427 Introduce Yourself 2 12-18-2004 08:42 PM
Rebuild or Crate? Dejavu Engine 6 07-16-2004 08:17 AM
Rebuild vs. Crate lenanci Engine 1 02-15-2003 09:00 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.