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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 08:08 AM
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In theory, one can easily build an engine to reach a goal of 600HP. In actuality, getting that engine to reach that goal may be difficult, especially reliably on pump gas. It would be far more feasible to build a 500-525HP engine (and that would be pushing it on pump gas, especially for a N/A small-block. It's better to build a 500HP engine and get that HP out of it than to build a 600HP and get 500 out of IT.

tom
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 09:14 AM
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I totaly agree, blame my intuition on the 2002 engine builders challenge...I wanted to build a sherminator...lol

ok, now that my head is out of the clouds will I have to port the 220cc PTL alum heads to even reach the 500-525hp mark? I want real hp, not some fixed up dyno queen but an honest 500 ponies, please fella's I cant bring myself to settle for anything less..

and really it wasnt that I didnt take your guy's advice seriously, I did, It was just that 13:1 and 8000 Rpm and 300 cfm isnt what Id call a pump gas 600 hp 383, after Buddy told me what exactly it would take to just get 600hp N/a out of a 383 is when I finaly visualized myself 600 hp N/a on pump gas was just impossible..with the parts list I have thats even more definate...so I have learned alot about N/a motors in this thread, its a cake walk to get 600hp with some giggle gas, but N/a? wow, I had no idea...

I would also like to thank you guy's for sticking in there even if you guy's knew I was terribly blinded by my intuition...This place is GREAT!!!!!!!2wld4u
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 09:42 AM
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Well I don't know who Buddy is but, it sounds like you have respect for him. He told you correctly and if I were in your shoes I would listen to him.

That's the problem with magazines sometimes. While the Engine Builders Challenge is neat, most of those engines wouldn't live 2 hours on the street. A lot of them were very high compression, they only had to live a couple minutes on a dyno, that is a far cry from being in a car and being driven.

Now back to your combo. While the 220cc heads will work I think they are on the large side for a 383. I don't think you will need much porting, I would clean up the exhaust port and the bowls, I would not open up the runners at all. Since the runners are on the large side you might not have the low end torque that a smaller runner head would have.

Personally I would probably run a solid flat tappet cam 240ish at .050, .550 or so lift (depends on where the heads flow best). Flat top pistons will be the best choice for those heads, compression in the 11:1 range should get you where you want to be. You do have the aluminum heads right? If the heads are iron I would suggest 10:1 compression.

You still really never said what the use for the engine/vehicle will be (if you did I missed it). The weight of the vehicle plays a huge role in picking a cam and intake.

In any case I think your new goals are very reachable, it is still not a shoe in it will take a well thought out plan. As Chris said a 500HP street car is NO JOKE. That should put you in the 11's VERY respectable for a street car (IMO).

Good Luck,
Royce
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 09:47 AM
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http://www.wighat.com/fcr3/camtruth.htm

Buddy Rawls....

yes I have the aluminum heads...part# 123 4000 20
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 01:32 PM
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I dont know if you said anything about this or not, but have you considered a 406?. I have a friend that just built a 383 with PTL 200cc heads and a 237/241@.050 cam with 9.7:1 compression. That motor was built to make power to around 6000 RPM. I talked to PTL about going with the 220cc heads on his 383 and they said that with that on a 383, like his (and yours), the heads would not start to perform until 3000-3500 RPM. To get a cam that would match that it would have to rev to 7000 RPM or higher. I would think about a 406 or 421 to allow the cubic inches to bring the powerband of the heads down a little.

Adam
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:10 PM
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I will agree 220 cc head is large, but I disagree with PTL that it wont make power. You just don't have to put a large camshaft in it. When you are over headed. . .you don't want to over cam it or it will be lazy. By using a small cam and utlizing the runner volume and opening and closing the valves quickly, you can still make good power.

Chris
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:13 PM
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yes, I would have rather built a 406 for these heads, I planned on doing so when I bought them...

after I had the 411 cid ready for the top end I sold it, and I still had the 383 so I went with it...but yes I agree...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by camaroman7d
firestone, I think you are missing a little on that Brutus 406, it says "up to 600HP" Usually when they say things like that, it means if you run race fuel and up the compression and cam.

This is why I asked if he planned on running pump gas, getting to 600HP on race fuel is not really a big challenge. Now getting to 600HP on pump gas N/A with 400 or less cubic inches will be a challenge.

Royce
camaro7d yes there are a few people selling different motors (455 street motors). Bruce Fulper from Rock n'Roll Engineering. He claims to have a 455 King Street that runs on 87 octane that puts out 617#ft and 600hp
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:41 PM
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granprix76, I don't know what you are responding to? The engine we are talking about is a 383ci Chevy. I never said you couldn't get to 600HP on pump gas with more cubic inches. 455ci is quite a bit more than 383.

Cstraub, I am not sure if you were replying to what I said. I do think the 220cc heads are a little large. I think they will make the power (500-525), I don't think he will need to get crazy with the porting (maybe clean up the bowls and the exhaust port). I didn't give a specific cam, because I don't know enough about his heads or the car it will be going in. I just gave an idea of what I think will get him where he wants to be. I agree he doesn't have to go wild on the cam but, he will need enough cam to get the heads to the point they like to flow. If you don't open the valve enough to get the most flow the engine/piston will tolerate, then you will not make the power he is trying to make. He might have slightly more torque with a smaller cam but he won't have the HP he is trying to reach. I would agree if you said he should go with a shorter duration but still keep the lift up, that would help make more torque as well as get the heads to their happy point.

Royce
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:49 PM
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Royce,
no I wasn't responding to you.. . I was responding to Adams post and what PTL said. Most over head and then over cam. 2yld is in very capable hands with Buddy Rawls. He and I have talked camshafts for sometime now. I don't grind stuff for the public, only engine builders and machine shops. If an individual e-mails me for a cam off a board I send them to one of my customers, or I recommend Buddy or Ed Curtis. Both are very capable.

I agree with you on the 455 CID, hell 600 is a cake walk with that kind on CID.

Chris
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 02:51 PM
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the Super chevy magaines "danger mouse" engine reached 525 Hp on all motor from a 350 ci SBC. so its not impossible... but close to,

the only pump gas crate 350 sbc ive seen make 600 hp is one from www.musclemotorsports.com and its built from used nascar stuff...
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 03:00 PM
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I was just talking in general

Last edited by granprix76; 05-07-2004 at 12:27 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 04:32 PM
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I like the way camaroman7d is thinking, and this also leads me to believe without a doubt he has been there done that...

Chris, I know you also do custom cam's, not to mention the best dang oil pans in the country...by the way, i'll be in touch when Im ready for a pan.. Im not sure if buddy is going to do the cam or not, I think he thinks Im a nut! lol and for personal reasons I cant buy from ED....but I would recomend his work...lol....I dunno chris send me a PM with a price on a custom roller....

I bet some of those guy's at corral is thankful I decided to go ahead with my SBC build...did I or did I not tell them... they try to make building a sbf so dang complicated I really needed to get away and build something I can enjoy...I am officialy a chevy man...and 500 ponies under my hood will make me feel even better about it...lol
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 05-06-2004, 11:29 PM
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Heres a motor you might be interested in. Pump gas, 600 hp, supposedly.


http://www.racingjunk.com/vc/234969/classifiedad.html

Adam

Last edited by firestone; 05-07-2004 at 03:46 PM.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 03:44 PM
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Check out that motor above, if that guy is telling the truth, that is pretty amazing. He claims to have dyno sheets though. I posted it once before, but the add that it was on ran out so I reposted it.

Adam
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