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Old 05-03-2004, 05:35 PM
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Recipe for 600HP?

Hey guy's Im in the middle of a 600hp 383 build and Id like some suggestions..

the CR will be 11.5:1
Im using Pro Topline 220cc alumin heads, 2.05X1.60 64cc chambers..
I will also be using a Victor Jr # 2975 port matched to the felpro 1206 gasket.

any input on the cam, carb, headers etc to make a real world 600hp is welcome..thanks, 2wld4u

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Old 05-03-2004, 05:49 PM
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i dont think its possible with those heads and only 11.5 compression..
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Old 05-03-2004, 05:50 PM
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hmmmm...ok.

how much do you think they are good for?
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Old 05-03-2004, 06:48 PM
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I think you can get there with those heads but, you are going to need a major solid roller cam and a tunnel ram or something similar and spin it to the moon (8000-8500RPM) it won't live long like that anyway.

The problem is the compression not the heads. If you want to try to make 600HP you are going to to need to be in the 13.5-14:1 range (IMO)

Now if you give us an idea of what the engine is going in and what it will be used for that might help.

Why would you build an 11.5:1 engine? You will need race fuel anyway so you might as well step up and build a 13+:1 engine.

If it is a street car you are going to need a power adder to get there on pump gas with only 383ci (IMO) nitrous or blower.

Royce
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Old 05-03-2004, 08:07 PM
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this is really just a what if situation, I have the heads, I had already built the shortblock and decided to put the two together.

I had planned on a 13.5:1 411 cid to run 5's in a drag car, but then I decided to build something a little milder for a pro street ride, the 383 should be plenty for the S-10 body I plan on dropping it into.

I project it to turn 7500 pretty easy with the heads and for this combo I want to keep the spray off of it and work on my N/A skills...lol

Yes IM planning on running a solid roller, I suppose I could mill the heads for more compression but Id rather see what I can get the way the heads are..

I have done some minor clean up and polished the chambers just because I couldnt leave well enough alone..otherwise they look great..

hey! just looking for some insite, I pretty much have everything nailed down but you guy's always offer great ideas and more than one opinion on anything can only help out in the long run...

thanks for the replies..2wld4u
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Old 05-03-2004, 10:11 PM
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You can make big power with 11.5:1.It wont be the best compression for your engine,but if a super stocker can make good power with 9.5:1 and 8000 rpm,there is no good reason that 11.5:1 shouldnt be good for something.I agree with other posts that 13.5:1 would be worth something,but actually fo a bracket engine you can error on the side of caution and leave 20 or so hp on the table and maybe double the engine life by leaving the 2 points of compression out of the mix.I would run that shortblock with a true 11.5:1{that isnt flat tops in a 383 with 64c heads either},and run a solid roller with about .640" lift and 265 intake and 275 exhaust at .050",with a 106 seperation and a 102 intake centerline.I would ditch that intake in favor of a matched super victor and top it off with an hp 950 carb.The downfall to your combo will be the headers.I dont know of any off the shelf headers that fit an S10 that are worth their weight.I would like to see 1 7/8" tubes on that motor,but I know you cant find that off the shelf for an S10.
This combo should make an honest 560hp,and put a 2800# S10 into the 10.0's at sea level on a good day.To put it into perspective,this combo would make abut 600hp on that popular "Magazine dyno",so you can have a comparison to something you might know.I would run that combo with a built powerglide and 5000 stall,and run the equivelent of 4.88:1 gears with 30" tires.That combo should get a 2900# truck in good air up t about 129 mph at about 7500rpm in the lights.
Now the interesting part is that with the cam I suggested and a true 11.5:1 even with iron heads you could drive the car on good quality premium pump gas if you had to get it home in a pinch.You couldnt run it flat out floored and race it without damage,but it would cruise at under 3500 rpm with litle issue as long as the engine wasnt dead hot.
So you wont have a daily driver cruiser,but it will be a fast N/A truck,and 10.0' isnt anything to take lightly.Good luck.
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Old 05-04-2004, 05:54 AM
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I just cammed a 383 13 .5 to 1 engine for Jasper. It had a set of ported 215 Iron eagles. It made 590HP. Without the compression you are going to be short, probly around 500HP. Cam would have to be pretty stout and if this thing is going to see any street time, I think I would ease off the power a little and put something in it that is a little more friendly.

Chris
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Old 05-04-2004, 08:20 AM
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I agree with whats been said but I think your going to have a hard time reaching 1.56 hp per CI with those heads. Nothing wrong with topline heads but they dont flow anywhere close to what topline claims. I would guess with that compression your going to be closer to 1.25 to 1.35 hp per CI...


Ben
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:41 PM
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thanks guy's I really needed some insite on this project, the cam I was planning on running has 254/260 duration @ .050..

these heads are the aluminum versions of the 23 degree 220CC heads, and I am aware of the advertised flow #'s...

To be honest here I dont think these #'s are inflated, I was at the machine shop yesterday comparing these heads to a set of fully ported Brodix heads, and these heads are truly awsome, also we even weighed the heads and the Pro Top line heads weighed 18lbs bare V/S the Brodix whitch weighed in at 25lbs each bare..

I'll have to have a flow bench varify the true flow #'s but Id say right off they are very close..

I may go ahead and preform a stage 2 on these heads and flow them to see what a lil touch up work can do for them, I think with some planning and some research I can hit the 600 mark pretty easy, I have also Elected Buddy Rawls to grind a custom cam for this build to help take advantage of the heads...this is why I needed some insite, I was going to buy an off the shelf grind but I can tell from your guy's wisdom a custom grind will be needed...hey! thanks guy's for the replies, Ill be sure to keep you fellows posted as the build progresses...2wld4u
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Old 05-04-2004, 03:58 PM
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2wld,
If you get the flow numbers, then you can get the cam, Buddy does good work, but I can tell you to make that kind of power the cam is going to be quite large. Jaspers "bullet" ended up with something in the .700" lift range and duration in the 260ish range. It also had 13 to 1 compression. I don't know where you are in WV, but in Winfield is a good guy, Steve at Automotive Machine. Also Carl Grover opened a shop and builds some nice stuff.

Pro Actions flow numbers vary. . .the heads are very capable of making power, just inspect them vary closely, pressure testing, and making sure all holes are where they are suppose to be.

Chris
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by camaroman7d

If it is a street car you are going to need a power adder to get there on pump gas with only 383ci (IMO) nitrous or blower.

Royce
Come on Royce...Dont you have any love for the turbos
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Old 05-04-2004, 04:56 PM
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Sorry Chris, nitrous, turbo or blower, is that better? Actually of the 3 turbos are the better choice (IMO).

I don't see him making 600HP N/A with 23* heads, unless it is a race only grenade (huge cam and big RPM's)

Royce
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:50 PM
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HEHE, much better. I agree totally. For race only 600 is not too hard in NA form. It would be much easier and would be streetable with forced induction. As for a recipe.......

<----------------------


Chris
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Old 05-04-2004, 07:59 PM
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I dont know... with a 383?

Anyway I would go with a full roller setup first, 4 bolt mains, eagle rods, forged pistons, aluminum bearings, etc.

But for a 383 to make 600HP you would have to have an all out racing motor with a really high compression and extremely wild cam. You would be better off keeping it at about 8.5:1 and running an 871, or vortech to get you up there in the numbers.
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Old 05-04-2004, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cstraub
2wld,
If you get the flow numbers, then you can get the cam, Buddy does good work, but I can tell you to make that kind of power the cam is going to be quite large. Jaspers "bullet" ended up with something in the .700" lift range and duration in the 260ish range. It also had 13 to 1 compression. I don't know where you are in WV, but in Winfield is a good guy, Steve at Automotive Machine. Also Carl Grover opened a shop and builds some nice stuff.

Pro Actions flow numbers vary. . .the heads are very capable of making power, just inspect them vary closely, pressure testing, and making sure all holes are where they are suppose to be.

Chris

you guy's certainly have me thinking, has anyone you know actualy Flow'ed the 220cc heads? Id like to see some actual flow bench #'s

Winfield is about 2 1/2 hours from here, the next time Im around Charleston I'll check out Steve's Place..

Im starting to get very Doubtful I'll get 600hp, maybe I'll just shoot for 530 and be happy with it... and thanks for the heads up, I figured PTL heads were a good start on a 600hp build, and now thanks to you guy's I may not be disapointed with the results..2wld4u
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