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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
Brian and I had a lot of comment last time when had this discussion , I did not want to stir things up again. I admire your builds. your creativity and have refered people to check out what you have done and at my age I can't make pretty welds like I used to . or what you do. I still tend to look at a car and after the first look admiring it say I would have done it different. That comes from being on the design review board . going over page after page of new Auto designs and finally signing the bottom of the blueprint. There are certain things that have worked and not worked since the horse got put out to pasture. Detroit did not always get it right and a few of us guys with more experience finally got to review what the kids were coming up with. Brian and I in the previous threads were pointing out that when ever possible a new builder should follow tried and true design criteria, I every once in a while look at some of my Society of Automotive Engineers Journals from the 1920's I have in my collection. A rat rod with 6.00 - 16 tires is going to handle differently than your roadster with "steam roller" tires. When I was the leader of a team of 6 engineers, we used to have a preliminary meeting and review each persons part of the project and everybody give input. One guy that was new to the team used to get very upset when someone made a comment that "I think you should do it this way."
An older engineer said calm down WE want this project to be a winner and everybody has different ideas and we can pick out the best way before we present it to upper management. I still think the early mustangs were the best built cars Ford Made
Thanks.. It's all good.. I may not be a Chassis Engineer.. But I have tested That Ackerman theory a little on the street and not out a book or on a drawwing board... I'm sure if you was doing some road course racing you would for sure see the difference.. I won't say you won't... But I did test this on the street along with running a spool on the street, (With pro street cars)

Now as far as the Ackerman,, Yes you will get a little tire scrub when you ture very sharp gone very slow,,(I get that on both,My 1999 GMC truck, And my 2000 Yukon) And that's ENGINEERED automobile !!!! Go figure..LOL.. ,,, But What I will say is you DON'T see it and everyday driving, And that I will defend.. Not trying to fight with anyone about this subject, And I won't,, But Like I said, I didn't do drawwing on a board or took what I read out a book,, I tested this,, Is it right, Maybe not... But it does work and pretty well I must say.... Now if you get the toe in or out wrong,,, That WILL let you know very fast..


Things that mean more to get right then the Ackerman,,

1.Caster..
2.Camber..
3.Toe in..(sometimes it has to be out)..
4.Your steering rod....

These are the MOST important things to get right when setting up your frames,,
I would say if you can get your Ackerman right, Do so,,,

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Last edited by NEW INTERIORS; 06-15-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 08:21 AM
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As poorly as I convey my thoughts I can see why others would feel I am saying "YOU ARE WRONG" when often I'm simply saying "I have another idea". I also know I will say "YOU ARE WRONG" and I hope others see beyond my poor attitude and see it as "I have another idea". This makes my poor attitude my problem and not theirs. But honestly, usually I mean "I have another idea".

Brian
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
As poorly as I convey my thoughts I can see why others would feel I am saying "YOU ARE WRONG" when often I'm simply saying "I have another idea". I also know I will say "YOU ARE WRONG" and I hope others see beyond my poor attitude and see it as "I have another idea". This makes my poor attitude my problem and not theirs. But honestly, usually I mean "I have another idea".

Brian
Like I said.. I TESTED THIS...
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEW INTERIORS View Post
Thanks.. It's all good.. I may not be a Chassis Engineer.. But I have tested That Ackerman theory a little on the street and not out a book or on a drawwing board... I'm sure if you was doing some road course racing you would for sure see the difference.. I won't say you won't... But I did test this on the street along with running a spool on the street, (With pro street cars)

Now as far as the Ackerman,, Yes you will get a little tire scrub when you ture very sharp gone very slow,,(I get that on both,My 1999 GMC truck, And my 2000 Yukon) I won't say you don't,,, But What I will say is you DON'T see it and everyday driving, And that I will defend.. Not trying to fight with anyone about this subject, And I won't,, But Like I said, I didn't do drawwing on a board or took what I read out a book,, I tested this,, Is it right, Maybe not... But it does work and pretty well I must say.... Now if you get the toe in or out wrong,,, That WILL let you know very fast..


Things that mean more to get right then the Ackerman,,

1.Caster..
2.Camber..
3.Toe in..(sometimes it has to be out)..
4.Your steering rod....

These are the MOST important things to get right when setting up your frames,,
I would say if you can get your Ackerman right, Do so,,,
The toe out may somewhat make up for the lack of proper ackerman. When the inside tire is following a tighter curve than the outside which is does, it needs to be turned in more for that tighter curve than the outside wheel. Without ackerman it is at the very least turned the same as the outside wheel thus with toe out it could be making up for the lack of ackerman. What is really bad is when it has negative ackerman and the outside wheel is literally turning MORE than the inside wheel. Again, the toe out could make up for some of this, I don't know. There are many variables like tire width that can make a big difference on the effects of the lack of ackerman.

Brian
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 03:59 PM
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road race time'

I spent a little time working on My good buddy, Bruce Cambern's 427 cobra . and he was very critical of everything. He worked his up way to be head of FORD SVO-Ford Racing before he retired. set the track record on the road race course at MIS. Won the 2009 optima and no one has yet came close to his times. and they wont let him race again ?? I am of the era when the Hotrods won the old road races south of the border . and always thought a hot rod should be able to out manuaver a sports car like they did in the old days. I went down to the Salt Lake Autorama show a coupe years ago and some one had a rat rod where they cut a Ford I beam in half turned it upside down and welded the center back together. None of the Geometry was right. center line thru the king pin, intersection point with tire contact point. castor point on road, etc. When I was in college I wrenched at a dealer ship , one of the other guy's brother built a 392 hemi powered stude for bonneville. I told him his front suspension was wrong, It started to dance and he got upside down close to 200 mph. He had already made one pass at 206, over the record and was making the back up run.

Last edited by timothale; 06-15-2013 at 04:09 PM.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
I spent a little time working on My good buddy, Bruce Cambern's 427 cobra . and he was very critical of everything. He worked his up way to be head of FORD SVO-Ford Racing before he retired. set the track record on the road race course at MIS. Won the 2009 optima and no one has yet came close to his times. and they wont let him race again ?? I am of the era when the Hotrods won the old road races south of the border . and always thought a hot rod should be able to out manuaver a sports car like they did in the old days. I went down to the Salt Lake Autorama show a coupe years ago and some one had a rat rod where they cut a Ford I beam in half turned it upside down and welded the center back together. None of the Geometry was right. center line thru the king pin, intersection point with tire contact point. castor point on road, etc. When I was in college I wrenched at a dealer ship , one of the other guy's brother built a 392 hemi powered stude for bonneville. I told him his front suspension was wrong, It started to dance and he got upside down close to 200 mph. He had already made one pass at 206, over the record and was making the back up run.
Your right and I'm wrong....You know what they say,,, Agree to disagree..
Thank God I think outside the box...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-16-2013, 07:50 AM
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outside the Box.

I have followed your builds . And YOU build your cars. and I wish I still had enough energy Like when I use to get up at 4 in the morning and go to work , then go home at night and be in my shop until 11, or work on Bruce's cobra all night to be at a race by 10 am.
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