Recommendations? Anyone? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Hotrodding Basics
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2005, 06:46 PM
Huckster's Avatar
I'm lookin' to learn.
 

Last journal entry: Tear down begins
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 90
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Recommendations? Anyone?

So I've finally separated body from chassis on my 1934 Olds. I'm in the process of removing fittings, brackets, etc and digging dirt and debris from the frame rails. During my little chore I've discovered that the insides of the main rails where the engine compartment would be are badly rusted. The rust appears to penetrate about half the thickness of the rail in quite a few spots and flakes off in thick chunks. I won't know the full extent of things until I blast the frame but it looks quite bad.

I'm looking for options here.
I'm a newbie at all this so fabricating a new chassis is out of my league, and buying a new frame just isn't in the budget. Should I look at sliding a chassis from something else under my project or can I cut off the front part of the chassis and graft on something from a modern car like a Camaro. My brother-in-law is a welder so I have that covered (he's gonna teach me as we go along).

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Brent Huculak

    Advertisement
__________________
Brent the Newbie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2005, 07:06 PM
broncoII88's Avatar
Do the right thing...
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Burnt hills upstate NY
Posts: 377
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Patch it if it don't work!

If the rust is as bad as you say it is, then you could cut out the rusted sections, and patch the frame with thicker pieces. But make sure your welds are good before you attempt this. Are you going to learn MIG or TIG?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2005, 08:50 PM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 69
Posts: 7,311
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 45
Thanked 145 Times in 137 Posts
Do a search on the knowledge base

And search the project journals...there has been a lot said about frame swaps..adding late model front ends and all that in earlier posts..

Take your time and do some research and I am sure you will come up with an answer..

Welcome aboard...

OMT
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 10:24 AM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Mopar tapered axle rear brake conversion
Last journal entry: What I'm doing now...
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,267
Wiki Edits: 49

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
After you blast, if the rust damage is all the way through simply cut out the damaged area and replace with new metal. If you're going to slip in a modern V8 I would also suggest boxing the frame from the front crossmember back to the trans mount crossmember. It will add stiffness and strength to the frame and in most cases it will make the installation of the new motor mounts easier.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 03:42 PM
Huckster's Avatar
I'm lookin' to learn.
 

Last journal entry: Tear down begins
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 90
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Neat thing about this frame is that it is already "pre-boxed" from factory in the area your mentioned. The sections are riveted together so I would just weld it for added strength.
I'm not going to be able to get to blasting till next week as I work the next 5 days but I'll take a pic or two and try post them tonight if possible. The rust is inside the boxed area outside rail on the passenger side...not sure if it will be visible in the photos.

Brent
__________________
Brent the Newbie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 06:18 PM
Huckster's Avatar
I'm lookin' to learn.
 

Last journal entry: Tear down begins
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 90
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Here's some pic's ...kinda hard to see the problem without blasting.

The yellow line is the interface between the 2 parts of the chassis rail and the white lines roughly show the boundary of the rusted section (half way thru the thickness or more). The section appears to be about 18-22 inches long. The problem is not evident on the driver's side so I think the car must have been sitting such that water pooled on the passenger's side for long periods of time (before it was dragged from the field).

Anyways have a look and let me know what some of you think.

Brent
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	cross-section rust.JPG
Views:	74
Size:	7.4 KB
ID:	5006   Click image for larger version

Name:	rusty1marked.JPG
Views:	76
Size:	48.4 KB
ID:	5007   Click image for larger version

Name:	rusty2marked.JPG
Views:	65
Size:	42.3 KB
ID:	5008  
__________________
Brent the Newbie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 06:27 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: new britain ct
Posts: 34
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rust

i would put angle iron thru those factory cutout holes in frame and weld it in . not the best way but will do the job if on a budget or cut that section out and use angle iron for that (edge - corner )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 07:44 PM
30desoto's Avatar
Dodge ain't all bad
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Eugene OR
Age: 59
Posts: 262
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Huckster
With a frame in that good of shape (almost new by the pictures) I think you have a lot to work with if that is the only bad spot you have. That can easly be cut out and repaired with either angle steel or two pieces of flat steel. The question is are you going to want to replace the front suspension to something newer or just rebuild the old suspension, what type of rearend will you use new or old suspension in the rear. If you think that you might want to change the whole frame for one that is newer with better suspension, than to locate one that will come close measure you frame length and width, wheel center to wheel center, and start looking for a small truck frame that will come close to your size and start adapting, wheel center to wheel center is the most critical of measurements, frame width and length can be adjusted fairly easy, I would check for the size of a 1500 S10 two wheel drive it may be close. Everyone has alot of answers here on the board with alot of knowledge, I have all the confidence in the world that if I can learn here and do things (cause I'm stupid, dumb and incompetent) then I know that you can do what needs to be done.

by the way WELCOME
30dee
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 07:53 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Mopar tapered axle rear brake conversion
Last journal entry: What I'm doing now...
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,267
Wiki Edits: 49

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckster
Neat thing about this frame is that it is already "pre-boxed" from factory .......
Well DUH! I was thinking Ford for some reason. Guess I should engage brain before typing next time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 09:27 PM
Huckster's Avatar
I'm lookin' to learn.
 

Last journal entry: Tear down begins
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 90
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centerline
Well DUH! I was thinking Ford for some reason. Guess I should engage brain before typing next time.
It's all OK Centerline. Everything out there from the 30's is pretty much ford so I can't fault you there.

And as for suspension 30D I dont think I'll rebuild the original since its bent, smashed, or missing. I was thinking 2nd gen camaro for the rear as the size and trackwidth are very close to the original (less the tunneled driveshaft). As for the front I am leaning toward IFS but grafting a 2nd gen camaro front clip/ subframe isn't out of the question either. I looked into S10/15 chassis for the car as well and the wheelbase of the truck is only 3-4 inches longer than the car- I just haven't found a trackwide measurement for comparison yet.

My head hurts....repair, swap, or graft new IFS and IRS onto old. Guess I got some thinking to do.

Thanks for input all, greatly appreciated.
__________________
Brent the Newbie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 10:31 PM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Mopar tapered axle rear brake conversion
Last journal entry: What I'm doing now...
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,267
Wiki Edits: 49

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
If you're thinking of a front clip then I would suggest a Nova instead of a Camaro. The 30's cars are a bit narrower than the later cars and a Nova clip is a bit narrower than the Camaro but provides you with the same advantages. Measure your front track width to be sure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2005, 10:38 PM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,868
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 20
Thanked 252 Times in 205 Posts
I would think that even a Nova clip may be a bit wide.....I have one in my 51 pickup, and it's just barely narrow enough for it. I would think a 30s car would be narrower......Of course, wheel offset may help too.....I may be wrong.
__________________
Ontario Rodders

Budget RVs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2005, 08:54 AM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Mopar tapered axle rear brake conversion
Last journal entry: What I'm doing now...
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 4,267
Wiki Edits: 49

Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by poncho62
I would think that even a Nova clip may be a bit wide.....I have one in my 51 pickup, and it's just barely narrow enough for it. I would think a 30s car would be narrower......Of course, wheel offset may help too.....I may be wrong.
You're probably more right than wrong. The best solution might be a Mustang II IFS but if his frame is rusted through in critical mounting areas he might have to look for one of the commercially available Mustang II compatible clips in order to do the job safely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 07:12 AM
Member
 

Last journal entry: Robs34 - Done my dash
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Adelaide Hills South Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Keep it

Welcome to the board.

First up, most frames of that era used the inverted channel method as a strengthener. Most builders ditch this part and box the inside of the rail in its entirety. The reason is that you will likely need to remove the old x member anyway for clearance of late model trans and running gear and make your own x member.
I would tend to retain the stock frame rails up front as in most thirties cars the front sheetmetal, radiator etcetra relies on the frame for location. Believe me it is easier to set up a suspension swap than rehash the entire sheet metal mounting.
For a suspension donor I have used Toyota 2wheel drive torsion bar set ups on Fords and Chevys of this era. The Toyota is almost perfect in width, has nice disc brakes and a Ford bolt pattern. I could adjust the bars so that the nose of my 34 roadster was 2 inches off the ground !
To install: The front frame member is cut out of the donor as aframe from behind the torsion bar , then the new crossmember has a rectangular hole cut on either side to the dimension of the rails where the crossmember will end up, and is slid onto the frame; bit of mucking around now; dummy the front fenders back in place and make sure the wheels are positioned right - you should have set the ride height up before now.. Use a datum point (the front perch of the rear spring is a good one on GMs) from the back of the frame on either side then measure diagonally to be sure that both sides are the same on either side so that it can be slid over the rails to the ideal position ( of course the front tie bar has to come out) after a bit of positioning, (I usually sneak the front axle forward an inch so the wheels are more centred in the opening); The torsion bars are then slid in and in most cases the rear torsion bar crossmember can be trimmed a little and re used, then with some 3mm plate the new front end is tied into the old chassis.The radius struts are reversed and a simple mount is made off the frame rail. Now you have a strong cool looking independant front suspension which fits under your fenders and can get you low! I will try to organise some pics of this swap and send them to you, I need to get the pics scanned and once I do that I will send them on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2005, 10:45 AM
Huckster's Avatar
I'm lookin' to learn.
 

Last journal entry: Tear down begins
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Alberta, Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 90
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks Rob and all. I would like to see the pics when you get them scanned. Getting info from people who know what they are doing is going to make this easier that floundering around helplessly on my own.

Thanks again
__________________
Brent the Newbie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hotrodding Basics posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spark plug recommendations Palmer Engine 2 04-10-2005 08:34 PM
Ingersoll Rand Compressor Recommendations daveh Garage - Tools 8 02-02-2005 02:38 PM
OEM brake hose recommendations powderbill Suspension - Brakes - Steering 1 01-14-2005 08:57 PM
Master cylinder recommendations wheel-7 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 3 11-04-2004 02:43 PM
Has anyone used this or have any better recommendations (breathing apparatus?) senor_limpio Body - Exterior 3 09-23-2004 12:23 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.