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Old 09-03-2011, 08:54 AM
45woody
 
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Red glow at header flange?

Looked around for thread on this,may have missed it.does red glow mean im to far advanced on timing?or too far uh you know retarded?for lack of better term.

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Old 09-03-2011, 09:33 AM
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Retarded ignition is the usual reason for glowing exhaust close to the exhaust manifolds. Check/set the timing with the vacuum advance hose disconnected from the vacuum canister and plugged off. Re-connect after setting the timing. Idle RPM will usually have to be lowered after re-connecting the vacuum advance hose when using a full manifold source.

Another possible cause is a major vacuum leak causing a very lean air/fuel mix. Look for any open ports at the carb base and/or the intake manifold. Vacuum lines not connected can also be a source for vacuum leaks.
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Old 09-03-2011, 10:59 AM
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Even so Frisco gave great advice as he always does, I need a little more detail. Headers or exhaust manifolds? Do they glow when the vehicle is sitting or after driving? Or is this a recent build and they glowed during the cam break in? This a small block chevy? What`s the combo? Where is the timing set at? is vacuum advance in use?
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Old 09-03-2011, 06:50 PM
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Ok,its a 468 bbc,top to bottom build.540 lift 310 duration cam.white resedue was on headers both sides,after taking a 15 min drive to put heat to new 4:10 rear.parked it went out next day took off hood,and there was white res on headers(they are old headers).took a spin today temp stayed at 187°but went to start it hot she didnt want to,and gave a puff of vapor up through carb.timing is curently 12° btdc and 32° overall.and she wants to run crapy at higher temps ie (cutting out)just putting around.have been told 850 dp stock will not supply efficient fuel for any cam over 280 dur.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:01 PM
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I`m not sure but it looks to me like it don`t have enough base timing.
Here`s a way you can check to see if the mixture is too rich or too lean.
With the engine at idle, and the glow condition going. Use the accelerator pump on the carb, as it can be operated without moving the throttle. Rise the idle up to around 1800 RPM, this way fuel is being pulled from the boosters. use the accelerator pump and give her about 5 to 7 good shots of fuel, if the glowing starts to go away, the engine is too lean, the extra fuel richened it up, temporarly curing the issue. If the glowing intensifies then the mixture is too rich and by adding more fuel by the accelerator pump it`s creating more heat which intensifies the glowing effect.
Also, one more thing on base timing, if the glow is occuring at idle, the low timing can be causing the issue because it`s set so low, the carbs idle adjustment is opened up so far it`s off the idle circuits so at idle it`s drawing off the boosters. With the car at idle, shine a light in the carbs throat, if you see fuel dripping out of the boosters you`re on to something. I would think it needs at least 18 degrees base timing, when it`s moved up to that mark, it`ll raise the idle speed which you`ll lower at the carbs idle speed adjustment, which will move the butterflies back to the closed position so it`ll pull from the idle circuits as it should
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:12 PM
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I would say you aren't running enough timing is the root of the problem. A cam that big needs at least 20 initial. 25 would be even better.

also 32 total isn't enough for a 454. 40 would be more like it.

retarded timing and/or a rich mixture makes exhaust glow red.

what is happening, is low timing is making the idle speed low, so you are opening the idle speed screw too far to get the rpms up, which is putting the throttle blades past the idle transfer slots, causing a very rich mixture. Then the retarded timing doesn't give the engine time enough to burn the fuel in the chamber, so the fuel finishes the burn in the headers, making them glow.

up the timing to 20 initial and see what happens.
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:18 PM
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Ok,i had a strange feeling this engine should run 18°to 22°but should overall still remain at32° overall?now just to get your opinion I had timing at 17° told a well established high performance tec,he said well thats your problem,as well as stock 850 dp must be re,metered for over 280 dur cam,but never explained what he meant about the timing! Argh..
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Old 09-03-2011, 07:24 PM
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Ok we will give the timing a boost,and check her out.that seems to be good advise,trouble shooting on carb.will jump on this all first thing in morning.
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Old 09-03-2011, 11:14 PM
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Ok I know how to get my initial lets say 20° but what or how + 10° mech then add 10°more vaccume,i set int(vacume dis connected/pluged)then with my adj/vac @3000rpm I set to 36° total..am I missing something?please put in timing for dummy's terms.
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:24 AM
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If the engine pulls enough vacuum you can use the vacuum advance. What we usually do is set the base timing to 12 degrees before top dead center with the vac advance disconnected and plugged. Lock the distributor, then reconnect the vacuum advance to a manifold vacuum source (one that pulls idle full time, including at idle) Recheck timing, it should be 20 to 24 degrees before top dead center. Test drive, if you hear detonation or ping, disconnect the vac advance, slightly loosen the distributor, and back the timing down 2 degrees, reconnect vac advance, lock distributor, test drive. If ping is detected again, repeat the process until the ping stops and your set.
After setting the timing with the vacuum advance you`ll notice the idle speed has gone up, reset the idle speed to spec. If you have a vacuum gauge, you`ll also want to reset the idle mixture, set it to where it`s pulling the highest vacuum at idle. Low end power and drivability will greatly improve.
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Old 09-04-2011, 06:42 AM
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I set my 454 to 20 initial then the mechanical goes to 40.

I also have an adjustable vacuum advance canister and limit that to 10 degrees.

I plug the vacuum advance canister into a manifold source so it idles at 30 degrees. (20 + 10).

max timing is 50 (40 + 10), at 4000rpm and no load. This condition would never happen unless it revs up to 4000 rpm in neutral, so total mechanical and vacuum is less in the real world.

Not sure how much the vacuum advance will help with your 454 (since the cam is so big). For now, I would just plug it and set the max mechanical timing to 40 (rev it up to set it), and see how it does. Since you said max timing was 32 with 12 initial, then just set the initial to 20 and the total should be 40.

here is a nice timing writeup. It is for a small block chevy but bbc are about the same. I found the bbc tend to like more timing than a sbc due to the slow burn heads and wider pistons of the bbc.

http://www.corvette-restoration.com/.../Timing101.pdf
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:22 AM
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here is another timing link.

http://www.firstfives.org/faq/timing...ed_engines.PDF
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:51 AM
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here is an example of a bbc that needed 42 degrees of timing. Old bbc heads and domed pistons make a slow flame travel, so more head start on the ignition is needed to complete the burn in time for the next cylinder fill.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...d/viewall.html

However, if you have flat tops and new style aftermarket heads, then less timing will be needed.
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