Reliable transmission for street/track use with around 1000hp - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Transmission - Rearend
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 07:32 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 2,269
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 575
Thanked 232 Times in 208 Posts
And brakes....good brakes

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 07:41 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 204
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Crosley mentioned the 4L80E. We were putting these units together for 800+hp applications 12 years ago. They were rated then for 800hp and were said to be easily built to handle 1,200hp. I know that more development has been done since then to further increase strength. These automatic OD units can be installed with a stand alone programmable controller(my personal preference) or full manual valve body.

As far as what you're planning to do with your car and motor, that's completely your own business. My own car and engine fall outside what most people would call kosher and I plan on alot more radical build in the future. Streetability in my opinion is a relative thing. You're the one driving it. If you consider it streetable then it is. If it breaks, it's your dime. The only person you need to convince is your wife. If she's like mine, she's keenly aware of how much money goes into your grown up hot wheels car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 11:30 AM
prostreet6t9's Avatar
Differential/Driveline
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: oregon
Age: 51
Posts: 1,751
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 9
Thanked 43 Times in 40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
Ask Techinspector how much to back half your car.
aero dynamics tuning for the MPH the car can go
also ask about a chute
My back half was $9500.00 to start with. Powder coating add$ If I wanted aluminum tubs.. add$. The options are endless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 12:06 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Europe / Poland
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A lot of good info - thanks.

Well looks like not even one said that Lenco ST1200 on the street is a good choice. You may be right. But it looks so awesome and that clutchless shifts are great.

Let my clarify things a bit - this car is starting to be some kind of a PARADOX since I want it to run good on the track and survive a lot of pavement on the street. I have to compromise somehow. The idea behind that car started totally as a protouring car. Now I'm leaning more and more to leave a bit of creature comforts behind for something more crazy blood in the car. I've already purchased full new front and rear suspension, Speedtech Chicane 9" Floater ( 31 spline ), 1350 Yoke, AFX spindles, ZR1 Hubs, Ridetech coil overs. 12.7-1 stearing box, 13" rotors with willwods and few other things. I just hope that will survive that 950-1000 hp. Guys from speedtech said that 750HP is not a problem for any of those parts - they are overbuild for that. How will it behave at 200 more, not sure.

Not even sure if I want to run full tubs or mini. Have to do some calculation on what drag slick will fit into mini tub.
Both hands on the steering wheel is a good point for automatic gearboxes
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 12:48 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 2,269
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 575
Thanked 232 Times in 208 Posts
One of my customers is Wayne Russell (he's forgotten more about automatics than I'll ever know) and he was recently telling me about a paddle shift option for a stand alone controlled 4L80e. Its only money. But if you have the scratch; multiport efi is much better for what you're imagining
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 02:04 PM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,327
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 128
Thanked 310 Times in 288 Posts
I have to ask, do you really need an engine with 1000hp?
yes it's cool for bragging rites, but you will never get that power to the ground at the track without huge money spent on the chassis, and even then on the street it still be a handful.
Are you ready to be replacing solid roller lifters 1-2000.oo a set, every 1000 miles, as they don't like low rpm at the cam it need to get 1000hp, and the springs might last 1/4th those miles before you are changing them..
it's a 77 f body the rear is connected to unitbody frame rails, you need more than a cage you'll need frame rails from the front subframe back, that's for starters. then the cage and the leaf spring set up isn't gonna cut it, not even with cal trac's.. The trans is the least of your worries..
that 1000hp engine will eat through 5000.oo+ in up keep in those 2000 yearly miles.
even a th400 built to take it, will need yearly fresh'ning. Whatever rear you bought, it'll need pro gears as street gears are to brittle, and pro type gears are not made for 2000 mile lifespans, axles, everything, at this level many parts get replaced with low miles on them. as the stress has pushed them to becoming a timebomb, waiting to fail..
I'd truly rethink this, I'd talk to owners of cars with this much power and what the upkeep of said car is.. you can easily blow through 10k every 2000 miles just in servicing it. You said you are not made of money, if you are planning on driving it and using the power, you are in for a wake up call at the cost, buying the parts is the easy part the upkeep cost is the killer..
As for D/F and the crusher Camaro, and the road kill show, venders give them parts , the mag foots the bill on a lot of it. he can get parts for much less than you can even when he needs to whip out his wallet.. They at least show their screw up's but it don't hurt as bad as it's partly funded by the mag, the show,the venders,
3 years ago they blew up the 1000hp saltflat cars engine and it is tamer than your n/a one would be, they returned this year only to blow up again. and they have more resources than most..
Honestly, if after you dump 45k in this car, if you can't afford 10k+ in servicing cost, a year, rethink your plan..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to gearheadslife For This Useful Post:
AutoGear (10-02-2013)
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 02:47 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Europe / Poland
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You've got a point there. To tell you the truth I have no first, or even 2nd hand idea about cost of maintenance of such high HP car. There are just few in Poland that have over 1K HP. Half of them are professional drag race cars. We got a lot of 750-800RWHP cars thou, and they are working quite good on the street. Maybe I have to curb my appetite a bit after all. going around 750HP on the wheels is not bad either.
I guess there are lot more stuff at reasonable price and maintenance cost rate at that level.

All in all I really like that chat. Never would have read anything about Lenco transmission if not that idea.
I think I could trow 10K on service a year, but do I want to - hmmm. Think is cheaper to build car for street, and another just for dragracing then to use one for both. At the end the cost of service due to mileage would be higher then price for 2.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 05:26 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 204
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
Just a thought, what would the difference be building a 750hp motor and just adding a 250hp nitrous fog system for when you want the extra power? You still would need to build the bottom end, chassis and drivetrain for 1000hp but at least you wouldn't be running a 1000hp beast all the time. Also, Autogear mentioned EFI. Very good idea for high horsepower on the street. Sequential port injection is much more forgiving of huge cam lobes than carburetion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 06:15 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,298
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 342
Thanked 809 Times in 775 Posts
you can build a friendlier turbo engine.all other parts will need to be super strength the same.The engine will cost more but not use as many parts regularly
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 06:48 PM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,298
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 342
Thanked 809 Times in 775 Posts
QUOTE:
" replacing solid roller lifters 1-2000.oo a set, every 1000 miles"
non sense and non sense
My 434 is limited use now for 9 years,same lifters
My lifters were not that expensive and I have decent followers
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2013, 03:48 AM
gearheadslife's Avatar
MentalMuffinMan
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,327
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 128
Thanked 310 Times in 288 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
QUOTE:
" replacing solid roller lifters 1-2000.oo a set, every 1000 miles"
non sense and non sense
My 434 is limited use now for 9 years,same lifters
My lifters were not that expensive and I have decent followers
YOU do NOT have a CAM in your tiny engine anywhere NEAR as big as the cam that be in a 1000 hp big block . the spring pressures the ramps everything is not even close to being the same..
guys are replacing or having their top of the line lifters after a few months of dragstrip use, no street time..or very little.. sent out and rebuilt. and those that didn't either where pulling the intake and checking every w-end after the races or picking rollers out of the engine or worse..
And what the hell is FOLLOWERS? you running a overhead cam?
cam/lifters/pushrods/rockers/valves and springs.. Cam followers are for overhead valve engines..
no matter.. a 1000hp engine will kill lifter at low rpm use and low rpm use is 2500 or lower.. EVERY lifter maker will tell you this.. it's not something from a forum member. comp/crowler/jesel/etc all said the same thing..
sure you might get a set to last longer, sure you might get a guy that never bothers to check them. There are enough horror stories of solids rollers failing that it's a fools game to not keep an eye on them and then send them out for a rebuild, even the non roller type that has a bushing instead of rollers pins between the roller and the shaft need rebuilding, but do go a little longer between rebuilds, but are 2500.00+ a set.
if your cam had todays fast ramps and big lift (a lot has changed in 9 years)you'd be on your 5th or better set of springs, as you do back off your rockers after every use, right.. in between that limited use?? he's talking 1-2 thousand miles a year, and most of that would be street miles.. that 1000hp big block will not be made for that, the cam/heads/everything will be set up to run 3000-7500/8000 rpm
not idle in traffic or run down the road at 2000 rpm , even with everything they've done to help oil the rollers it still needs that oil splash from the crank throwing the oil and low rpm, and more than likely a windage tray, isn't gonna cut it. maybe Vinnie your cam is softer,you didn't list what amount of miles you've gone in 9 years, roller lifters didn't use pressurized oil to oil the rollers 9 years ago.. until you got into prostock type lifters..
I'm willing to bet the cam in that 1000hp engine makes your cam look mild.
apples to oranges..
If you haven't checked your lifter or had them rebuilt, you are a lucky man. or like dancing with the devil.. God bless ya.. I'm not that brave. replacing an engine because I didn't check and service a part, well, I can't afford to chance it, even tho, my roller is mild by todays standards, and down rite tiny compaired to the cam that be in that 1000hp monster, there isn't one engine builder that'll tell you,don't worry about it, they'll be fine, they'll go tens of thousands of miles, any worth their salt will tell you to check them regularly and send them out for a rebuild at end of season.. and that just 1/4 miles at a time.. every one of the unlimited class and quite a few in the next few lower classes in dragweek had a set or 2 of spare lifters, and they are easier on the parts as most are turbo'd and use a smaller cam that a n/a1000hp .. if they had found a fix to make solid rollers lifters last with a wild cam,those guys would carry a few pairs not a few sets..
I'd rather the o/p asked the engine builder on the lifespan of the lifters and advise on when to send them out for a rebuild. than follow an internet post and be pissed if one failed and took out the whole short block.. AS they know what parts they used and about what they'll last with that cam/springs and use. things you or I know, and it be a guess at best.. My reply is from talking to racers at the track and my engine machine shop and a few others in the area.. racers don't like spending money unless they have to(at least the ones around here) so when they are pulling intake every other week, or between rounds because they don't like the valve lash when checked. and send lifters out to be serviced at 500-1000 a whack for a set.. then ,they haven't figured out how to make them live longer yet, and for the bbc and gen 1 sbc they never will as they are todays flathead.. the LSX AND THE (don't call it a mod motor) ford 5.0 are what racers will be using, lighter, same power output and in the case of the lsx smaller..

Last edited by gearheadslife; 10-03-2013 at 04:15 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 07:35 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 204
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts
I was thinking of something yesterday while I was buried in cars(flagged 24hrs yesterday, not bad for a slow October week), vinniekq2 got there ahead of me. 1000hp with boost is common today. I see guys doing it with mechanical drive supercharging, whether vane or centrifigal, and with turbocharging. Mechanical, while less efficient is easier to set up and tune than high horsepower turbo charging but both can work quite well and there is fluid dynamic parts matching software on the internet to help you select the right parts for any given combo and power level. The base engine build for a boosted application is much milder(smaller cam and ports) and like NOx, you only use the power when you decide to. Stay out of the throttle, and you are driving a mild street motor, compared to a 1000hp NA motor. Plus, on a BBC, the look of a roots blower(Weiand 8/71?) poking out of the hood is just classic bad *** hot hod. Twin turbos isn't bad either. Just my thoughts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2013, 09:02 AM
vinniekq2's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: BC,Canada
Age: 56
Posts: 8,298
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 342
Thanked 809 Times in 775 Posts
gearheads life you made a fool of yourself with that post!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
YOU do NOT have a CAM in your tiny engine anywhere NEAR as big as the cam that be in a 1000 hp big block . the spring pressures the ramps everything is not even close to being the same..
guys are replacing or having their top of the line lifters after a few months of dragstrip use, no street time..or very little.. sent out and rebuilt. and those that didn't either where pulling the intake and checking every w-end after the races or picking rollers out of the engine or worse..
And what the hell is FOLLOWERS? you running a overhead cam?
cam/lifters/pushrods/rockers/valves and springs.. Cam followers are for overhead valve engines..
no matter.. a 1000hp engine will kill lifter at low rpm use and low rpm use is 2500 or lower.. EVERY lifter maker will tell you this.. it's not something from a forum member. comp/crowler/jesel/etc all said the same thing..
sure you might get a set to last longer, sure you might get a guy that never bothers to check them. There are enough horror stories of solids rollers failing that it's a fools game to not keep an eye on them and then send them out for a rebuild, even the non roller type that has a bushing instead of rollers pins between the roller and the shaft need rebuilding, but do go a little longer between rebuilds, but are 2500.00+ a set.
if your cam had todays fast ramps and big lift (a lot has changed in 9 years)you'd be on your 5th or better set of springs, as you do back off your rockers after every use, right.. in between that limited use?? he's talking 1-2 thousand miles a year, and most of that would be street miles.. that 1000hp big block will not be made for that, the cam/heads/everything will be set up to run 3000-7500/8000 rpm
not idle in traffic or run down the road at 2000 rpm , even with everything they've done to help oil the rollers it still needs that oil splash from the crank throwing the oil and low rpm, and more than likely a windage tray, isn't gonna cut it. maybe Vinnie your cam is softer,you didn't list what amount of miles you've gone in 9 years, roller lifters didn't use pressurized oil to oil the rollers 9 years ago.. until you got into prostock type lifters..
I'm willing to bet the cam in that 1000hp engine makes your cam look mild.
apples to oranges..
If you haven't checked your lifter or had them rebuilt, you are a lucky man. or like dancing with the devil.. God bless ya.. I'm not that brave. replacing an engine because I didn't check and service a part, well, I can't afford to chance it, even tho, my roller is mild by todays standards, and down rite tiny compaired to the cam that be in that 1000hp monster, there isn't one engine builder that'll tell you,don't worry about it, they'll be fine, they'll go tens of thousands of miles, any worth their salt will tell you to check them regularly and send them out for a rebuild at end of season.. and that just 1/4 miles at a time.. every one of the unlimited class and quite a few in the next few lower classes in dragweek had a set or 2 of spare lifters, and they are easier on the parts as most are turbo'd and use a smaller cam that a n/a1000hp .. if they had found a fix to make solid rollers lifters last with a wild cam,those guys would carry a few pairs not a few sets..
I'd rather the o/p asked the engine builder on the lifespan of the lifters and advise on when to send them out for a rebuild. than follow an internet post and be pissed if one failed and took out the whole short block.. AS they know what parts they used and about what they'll last with that cam/springs and use. things you or I know, and it be a guess at best.. My reply is from talking to racers at the track and my engine machine shop and a few others in the area.. racers don't like spending money unless they have to(at least the ones around here) so when they are pulling intake every other week, or between rounds because they don't like the valve lash when checked. and send lifters out to be serviced at 500-1000 a whack for a set.. then ,they haven't figured out how to make them live longer yet, and for the bbc and gen 1 sbc they never will as they are todays flathead.. the LSX AND THE (don't call it a mod motor) ford 5.0 are what racers will be using, lighter, same power output and in the case of the lsx smaller..
Re my camshaft compared to a 1,000 HP 632
my engine makes that kind of power/cubic inch
I have changed the valve springs
my engine has road race tuning
specs 256/264x108 square .630/.672 lift
I use Jessel rocker shafts
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2013, 01:54 PM
painted jester's Avatar
TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

Last journal entry: mopar hump back
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Michigan
Age: 68
Posts: 1,841
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 103
Thanked 292 Times in 240 Posts
Ive been reading posts and threads I missed during the summer months because Ive been on here very little and missed a lot of threads! And was reading this thread when the statement was made about:

Quote:
"And what the hell is FOLLOWERS? you running a overhead cam? are only on overhead cam engines" End Quote.

If you don't know what a follower is when pointing out flaws in someone elses post on roller cams and lifters you should look it up!!!! and then pretend you already knew what a follower is and knew what you were talking about before making a fool of yourself with an idiotic remark like this to a man (Vinnie)that knew what he was referring to and others on here with knowledge understand!!!

If you people on here don't know something you should ask politely!!!


A reply like Hey Vinnie I don't know of what follower your talking about could you explain

And then people on here won't get so P I S S E D O F F !!!!!!!!!!!

JESTER
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2013, 03:23 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Europe / Poland
Posts: 14
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Since the topic derailed a bit into engine I've dug a into NA bigblock usage and decided that going around 1000 hp on NA engine is crazy for the usability. I've talked with guys from Steve Morris Engines. Finally decided that I will go with 540 + F2 build by them. It is a solid roller, but as they said ( correct me if I'm wrong ), I'm going to have to check valve lash every 3-4K miles and that should be it.

The question still stands for the tranny. I have no clue what kind to pick. Is there a chance to get Tremec Magnum that will survive that ? What about 4L85E ???

I not really sure what is the difference in manual 4L85E and auto - I get the basics but all else is fogy to me.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Transmission - Rearend posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
modified dirt track transmission prumora1 Transmission - Rearend 4 07-10-2013 07:26 AM
What gear ratio for short track and some street use? chevydragster83 Transmission - Rearend 3 08-22-2011 10:30 PM
mini spool for track and street chevydragster83 Transmission - Rearend 6 06-08-2010 02:57 PM
best street/track rear setup for S10 Slammed96ss Suspension - Brakes - Steering 7 10-30-2009 08:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.