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Old 10-01-2013, 04:02 AM
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Reliable transmission for street/track use with around 1000hp

Hi,

I have no idea what to do. Maybe you guys can help me. I am planning to get 632 from URE that will pump out something around 1000 hp and 850-900 TQ.
Puting it into 77 Firebird. Got floater 9" from Speedtech performance - it should survive that kind of load. Its with 3.73 ratio. The car will be driven on the street and track on weekends. I estimate around 1500-2000 miles a year of street use - going from meet to meet.

At first I was planning to put T56 into it. BUT... with that kind of power, from what I've heard its far from reliable. Then I went the other way ... Lenco ST1200 - looks and works awesome. Clutchless manual up shifts are a dream come true. BUT... with the final gear ratio of 1:1 - I dont think they can go lower ( correct me if I'm wrong ), I will be going at 65 MPH around 3200-3300 RPM - and that is not good.

I'm not sure how ST1200 will be usable on the street - i'ts not going to be my daily driver but as I said its fun to drive around from time to time. Will it not overheat if I drive it strait without any break for 2h going from one city to another ?

What other options do I have in the market ? Throw me a bone here guys, will appreciate it a lot.

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Old 10-01-2013, 06:59 AM
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You want a thousand horsepower, but dont want a race engine to run at 3grand? Thats a tall order, especially if its carbureted.
You should try to look at things from a bit of a different perspective. Deep 1st gear is useless for you; unless you have a full on pro mod tube chassis; you won't be able to hook with a deep 1st anyway. Secondly, contact URE and find out what the cruise RPM for that specific motor is.

You can't just take a full on, double throwdown race motor and cruise it at 1600 RPMs and expect it to be happy. You'll run into all kinds of problems; tuneability, lugging etc. You may very well find out that your engine doesn't want to cruise below 3000 RPMs.

I would see if you could put 3.42s in the axle and use a tall tire to get the RPMs to where the motor wants to cruise, WITHOUT the added expense and mass of the OD.
If you're stuck on Overdrive, the only suggestion I have is a built TH400 with a Gear Vendors unit. But again, contact your engine builder first and that will give you a window to shoot for. Due to the GV's deep reduction value, you may have to gear the rear end UP to hit your target RPM.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:27 AM
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It's carbureted. I know its a stretch, but that engine is kinda designed as a dual purpose engine - for street/track use. Don't have much experience with that kind of power - Most I had was around 700 and it was totally streetable. I had a beefed up TH700 for that engine. I could cruise all day long in it without breaking a sweat. Going up 300 more is getting difficult, and that's why I'm here

I'm fine with a bit higher cruising RPM then the normal motor. Just want to find best combo for the job.

I like the idea with a short first. I'm thinking of going 8 or 10 point cage to make it survive the torque.

I will definitely talk more then once with URE guys trowing some ideas around. I jumped the gun on rearend - paid almost 6 grand for it, and from the looks of it it might have to tall ratio after all.
Dont have bottomless wallet, so I figured out that its better to ask few question, then to have a lot of spare parts laying around

Th400 is always an option - from what I've read it can handle that kind of power for a long time ( if build for that ).

Have anyone from the board used that ST1200 Lenco on the street ??? Maybe you guys know someone with hands-on experience that I can talk to ?

Any info is gold
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Old 10-01-2013, 08:16 AM
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The smartest transmission builder I know is Frank Cahall (302-250-1202). He also has a website under Cahall Performance Transmissions. He started out racing a '77 Camaro, so he can probably give you a few pointers on chassis, etc also.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint78 View Post



Will it not overheat if I drive it strait without any break for 2h going from one city to another ?
I think you will have more of a problem getting the engine to endure that kind of continuous road trip, than what transmission to use. I think your expectations of what your going to do with the engine is going to be more than you realize. You might be able to enjoy an around town type of cruising use out of it, but I think your going to be disappointed trying to drive it for those kind of distances repeatedly. Engines of this high of an output just aren't meant to last for that kind long term, there high enough maintenance as it is. maybe if you trailer it there, and just cruise around once you arrive. Same for the tranny, having to endure that much continuous mileage behind that kind of power and torque is expecting a whole lot.
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:40 AM
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Hmmm, why is that ??? I saw a David Freiburger's yellow camaro - he drove that thing for like 1200 miles, hes got like 700+ HP with a supercharged bigblock, and he was cruising 2300 rpm at 75 MPH. It did not blow or anything. Thou he's got 4L85E if I'm correct. I don't know how much millage on the street I will do in a year. hard to tell But I don't want it to stay in garage all week all the time. Where is the fun in that
I know I wont get 50K miles from that engine without rebuild, there has to be a solution in the middle.

I'ts not that I'm being a smart *** - far from it. Just wondering - there is a lot of opinions on the forums regarding subjects like that. Most of them contradicts each other . I cannot afford to rebuild the engine or tranny every year. That is to much for me.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:04 PM
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Here is what I know; A lot of the guys that do hot rod magazine's "Drag Week" use the 400/GV combo; and they also more than likely are using a lighter valvespring during the drive portion of the "competition" and then go back to the proper valvespring for the racing part. And the drop out rate in that series for normally aspirated cars is pretty high; mostly to valvetrain issues. Road race engines don't usually live more than 1000-1500 miles without being torn down. The answer is to talk to your engine builder, if you really want midrange cruising, low load, cruising capability; Id expect your valvesprings to be significantly different than 1000bhp "grip it and rip it" quarter mile performance.

Our transmission design is pretty tough, especially for a synchronized box with an aluminum main case; and when you talk about longevity, its all in 2 things, how consistant are YOU (the driver) and how good is your set up. The more driveline shock you impart into a manual gearbox; the shorter its usable lifespan. Case and point: Borg Warner only rated the vaunted ST10 2.88 1st to something like 375ft lb. It would take a LOT more abuse than that with a slipper clutch and a smooth launch. The 375ft lb rating was based on something like 35,000mi. Double the input and you probably shorten the lifespan by 90%. Thats still a long time for a competition car. All this assumes you dont see severe tire shake, have to eat the clutch, miss a shift or overshift a synchronizer continually.

There are a few issues with a lenco or jeffco; downshifting and parallel parking will probably drive you to drink.

You have enough power under your right foot to break anything on the market so spend the time to manage your driveline system accordingly
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:45 PM
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Jumping from 700 HP to 1000 HP might not seem like a big step to you, but its a huge difference, and the stress level placed on the parts isn't a proportional jump either, its likely twice or more. Not saying it can't be done, but don't believe everything you read in magazines either, there written to sell parts for the people that advertise in them, and they also don't tell you what all went wrong to get the 700 HP to live either, or that they burnt several pistons leaning on it too hard to get the 700 HP reading, but backed the boost down to a more reasonable level to make it live. You only see the "rose colored glasses" version. Its great if you're not disappointed, but just be prepared to be. A lot of guys will tell you, "Don't drive any farther than your willing to walk!"
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:45 PM
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Why don't you consider a 4L80E? Stock they can handle over 600 hp, and can be built to handle over 1500-I have one in my Car (800 hp+) , and they are very durable-here is a Link to where I bought mine, but there are at least 4-6 4L80E performance builders in the US that are very reputable and can offer references-
I also bought one of his Billet Converters-here is a link to where I got it (it's a Stage 4)-Jake is a stand-up guy and builds parts for other rebuilders-

4L80E page
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:55 PM
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1000 HP aint that big of deal now a days. It will take some quality parts in a T-400 or the 4L80e trans.

The trans and proper converter will be expensive, but so is the engine being talked about
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:42 PM
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a 631 inch motor that revs 6500 RPM is going to have valve spring issues

I would use a power glide or turbo 400 with nothing but the best pieces. The gearing you have will work if you use tall tires. a 33 tire would give you a top speed of 170 ish. a nine second car needs the best of everything. $20k engine,$12k transmission,$10kdiff,back 1/2 minimum.
If the car is heavy,buy lots of spare everything
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Old 10-02-2013, 12:51 AM
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Thanks for the info guys, a lot of good ideas here.
I think I went to big with 3.73 in the rear - when I put all things together and drive a bit I will decide if I want to go to 3.5 or even lower.
That 9s bracket is just on a wish list - I't might not be reachable without huge budget. - 20K on a motor I got, But tranny I was think around 5-6K tops.
As for engine I'm waiting for the info from the builders. Might go a bil lower - even to 434 and put procharger on it.

turbo400 and 4L80E are good trannys - always an option. I guess it depends on the builder how strong they are.

I was thinking about totaly diferent way -- i know its not going to be as fast on the strip as autotrans, but what about beefed up Tremec Magnum ?
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:47 AM
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I would go with a T400 and call it a day, if you want to drive on the parkway all the time then simply adjust the gearing and tire height for it. My Sierra is around the HP Level your shooting for and I love the T400 and wouldn't want anything else.

And even with 4.1 gears by running a 33 x 21-1/2" tire like I run it is VERY parkway friendly. (not that I do much Parkway Driving but I do some)

MPH x 1.0 x 4.1 x 336 Divided by 33
55= 2296 RPM / 60= 2504 RPM / 65= 2713 RPM / 70= 2922 RPM / 75= 3130 RPM / 80= 3339 RPM / 140= 5844 RPM
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:08 AM
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You will have serious longevity issues with a manual gearbox but if you want to try it; RPM Transmissions is the place. Dave Guffey is one hell of a builder. Be careful of places who rate transmissions without asking what you're planning on putting it in. With a manual gearbox; your clutch selection and adjustment is absolutely critical; one mistake and you've got the power to shred anything on the market. FYI a basic overhaul kit for a 6060 (ie the Magnum) is closing in on a grand. And you'll never use all 6 speeds either. My suspicion is you'll have a hard time getting the motor revved high enough on the highway to use the .50 6th
You'll kill a TKO
You may have a chance getting a Nash 4+1 to survive; BUT its geared wrong for what you're wanting to do
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:13 AM
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I wouldnt use a standard trans period.You will be busy steering.
dont forget you will need to spend $4k just on custom headers and exhaust.
$1.5k carb and dyno tune.
Ask Techinspector how much to back half your car.
aero dynamics tuning for the MPH the car can go
also ask about a chute
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