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-   -   Removing emmission control components (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/removing-emmission-control-components-190298.html)

johnhawes 01-07-2011 10:43 AM

Removing emmission control components
 
Hi, I have a 1941 Ford with a 1990 Ford 302 EFI engine, C-4 transmission, and a 8" rear end. My question is what to do about the trouble codes created by not having all of the emission components working properly. For example there is no smog pump, catalytic converter, or charcoal canister. Is there some way that the system can be modified to operate without these items and still clear all of the trouble codes? The KOEO test shows no faults, it with the KOER test that they start to show up.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John Hawes

F-BIRD'88 01-07-2011 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhawes
Hi, I have a 1941 Ford with a 1990 Ford 302 EFI engine, C-4 transmission, and a 8" rear end. My question is what to do about the trouble codes created by not having all of the emission components working properly. For example there is no smog pump, catalytic converter, or charcoal canister. Is there some way that the system can be modified to operate without these items and still clear all of the trouble codes? The KOEO test shows no faults, it with the KOER test that they start to show up.
Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
John Hawes

Put a piece of black tape over the "service engine" light.
They are just diagnostic codes stored in the computer.
As long as it will run in closed loop operation (O2 sensor, temp sensor TPS etc ) who cares.
If it goes into a limp home mode because of a missing/disabled sensor then you have a issue.
There is no law that says you cannot run functional cats on your '41 and do your part for the environment.

DanielC 01-07-2011 01:12 PM

This is a way out in right field suggestion, and probably not cheap. Try to get the engine computer off a marine, or industrial engine.
Boats do not have the equipment you have removed.

johnhawes 01-07-2011 01:25 PM

removing emmission components
 
Thanks Guys,
Both good suggestions, probably should consider installing the smog pump and catalytic converter but I'll also look into getting a computer off a boat or something that doesn't have all the smog stuff. I don't know what to do about the brake on/off switch though.
My worry is that the computer can't do it's job unless it has the input from all of the sensors. The whole point in going EFI is for efficient engine operation.
Thanks again for your input.
John

DanielC 01-07-2011 02:09 PM

What brake on/off switch? Was it just for the emergency brake being on, or something on the hydraulic circuit?

The catalytic converter is not needed for the most efficient engine operation, but the engine does have to have misfire detection to avoid catalytic converter damage. However, the engine would run a lot cleaner with the cat, and the air pump.

johnhawes 01-07-2011 02:47 PM

o
 
The engine and computer are from a 1990 Crown Victoria and apparently that model has some type of brake on/off sensor that the computer reads as that is one of my KOER trouble codes.
So far I have only been able to run the engine for short periods because the radiator assembly hasn't arrived yet, engine running test are to be made at normal operating temperature. I am hoping that i may loose some of the trouble codes then.
Thanks,
John

86GMC 01-07-2011 04:56 PM

ford bo/o switch is the one on the pedal that controls the brake lights, if I remember right. Computer uses it as an input for cruise disable. Dont remember if brake lights are a computer output or not, but not an issue if you have a standalone light control circuit

johnhawes 01-08-2011 06:28 AM

That makes sense, thanks.
John Hawes

DanielC 01-08-2011 10:41 AM

Here is something else to consider. The charcoal cannister. It would be another system to hook up, but it does not reduce the power output of the engine. The engine does purge any vapors from it, and recycles then back into the engines intake manifold, and the engines computer, with the O2 sensor reduces the amount of time the injectors are "on" because of the gas vapors coming out of the cannister.

I think is is better to gain the slight mileage, from having a sealed fuel tank, than just to dump the vapors out into the air.

LATECH 01-08-2011 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnhawes
Thanks Guys,
Both good suggestions, probably should consider installing the smog pump and catalytic converter but I'll also look into getting a computer off a boat or something that doesn't have all the smog stuff. I don't know what to do about the brake on/off switch though.
My worry is that the computer can't do it's job unless it has the input from all of the sensors. The whole point in going EFI is for efficient engine operation.
Thanks again for your input.
John

A marine computer for any year wont give good performance as the fuel mix and timing curves are WAY different due to the way a marine engine moves a boat through water. Dont waste your time.If it isnt setting any sensor codes dont worry about it like F Bird said.
No cats and no smog pump will only affect performance in a minor way. You would probably not ntice. You do want an O 2 sensor(or both) hooked up. If it had down stream sensors, leaving them out wont affect performance , all they do is measure cat health.

LATECH 01-08-2011 10:54 AM

Also a 1990 ford had an AOD not a c-4. If it has a lockup converter operated by the ecm and not just by hydraulic then you will need the BOO switch.Otherwise it shouldnt pose any issue. (Brake On Off)

johnhawes 01-08-2011 12:35 PM

Thanks latec, i have learned what the BOO switch's function is i had no idea what it was for.
John

johnhawes 01-08-2011 12:45 PM

Thanks again latech, you probably saved me time, money, and a lot of fustrution with the information about a marine computer, i do have both O2 sensors connected. One of the fault codes is Thermactor air system fault, and another is EGR valve not operating properly. Could the EGR fault be a result of the Thermactor system fault or vise versa?
Thanks,
John

DanielC 01-08-2011 01:19 PM

The Thermactor is the air pump, fresh air into the exhaust system,
EGR is exhaust gas recirculation.

They are pretty independent of each other, but keep in mind, everything on modern engines is interrelated.
The air pump pumps fresh air into the exhaust, and it helps burn off unburnt hydrocarbons
and convert CO to CO2, in the catalytic converter.

EGR is used mainly to reduce oxides of nitrogen, from the engine. It can also be used in some conditions to reduce spark knock.

LATECH 01-08-2011 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielC
The Thermactor is the air pump, fresh air into the exhaust system,
EGR is exhaust gas recirculation.

They are pretty independent of each other, but keep in mind, everything on modern engines is interrelated.
The air pump pumps fresh air into the exhaust, and it helps burn off unburnt hydrocarbons
and convert CO to CO2, in the catalytic converter.

EGR is used mainly to reduce oxides of nitrogen, from the engine. It can also be used in some conditions to reduce spark knock.

Dan C got a 100 on this one.Exactly perfect. I also like his suggestion to keep the evap functional,especially if you garage park your car.You wont smell fuel in the garage if it is working properly. Kudos Dan C


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