Repainting due to Paint Peel. E-Coated body. Sand to bare metal? - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:20 PM
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Repainting due to Paint Peel. E-Coated body. Sand to bare metal?

I'll be repainting some Dodge panels that have peeling factory paint. Is my best bet to buzz it all to bare metal or just sand off what's loose, scuff to 320, prime and paint?
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:51 PM
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repainting dodge parts

I worked for dodge dealership for 18 years in the bodyshop and we redid quite a few cars and trucks for peeling. We sanded and featheredged everything with 180 grit primed preped and painted. The problem with the old paint it didn't stick to the factory etch. So when you sand just go down to the etch and you will be fine but remember to re etch your bare metal.
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Old 07-08-2013, 06:05 AM
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The primer thats over the metal is epoxy primer when I do these I sand it off also and start from the metal again,no sence leaving it on, its crap from the get go...once you got it to the metal you dont want to use another crap epoxy and have something else happen after doing all that work...so use a quality epoxy I've used a lot of epoxies in the past and the best deal is SPI epoxy it's all I ever recomend as a plus you dont need any other primers because it also sands well.Not only is it the best,the price is right too...look up SPI epoxy by doing a search at the top of the page....
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:01 AM
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Deadbodyman is right. I believe it is a primer problem that causes the paint to peel on these to start with. We do a fair amount of warranty work for Mitsubishi (barf), they want their peelers taken to bare metal. We lost the Dodge account couple years ago, THANK GOODNESS. They were shoving rusty sprinters down our throat like you wouldn't believe. Take it all off.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:12 AM
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That's what I was thinking DBM. If I scuff and paint over what's still there it probably wouldn't be long before it continues to peel as the remainder of the factory paint/coatings let loose.

HB, who did the original paint on those? I had heard Sprinters were Mercedes rebranded as Dodge for the USA. In either case I'm not surprised. I've had a lot of older Mercedes from the early 80's (when they still made good cars - mostly diesel) and the paint seemed to be pretty good. Not sure how the new paint is.
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:34 AM
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Here is the fact, many of these peelers happen because of too thin of clear. The clear doesn't offer the UV protection and the paint and primer break down under them. At least that is what I saw as a paint rep in the late 90's. The clear would come off with paint and even primer on the back side of the peeled piece. This tells you that the clear adhered to the paint, the paint breaking down is what caused the failure. As soon as the paint has no protection because the clear has peeled off it begins a very rapid degradation and this allows more UV to reach the primer under it. The primer is breaking down at a high rate being it has zero UV protectors.

Long story short when your repairing a peeler you strip it to bare metal and start from scratch.

Brian
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:40 AM
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Yes the sprinters were Mercedes. Freightliner rebadged some also. Not sure what's going on with them currently.

Nissan/Infinity are the current worst for rust. I have repaired rust on NEW, UNSOLD Infinity's more times than I care to remember....
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:43 AM
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The way I look at a peeling paint job is that something failed, Clear to thin, yes...original E coat not promoting adhesion, yes...and a host of other potential problems. The only way to get piece of mind and knowing that the new paint is going to have a much better chance of staying on your vehicle is to take the old paint off...it failed. With a fresh substrate, you will at least know what you have.

Ray
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:14 PM
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That's what I will do then. Thanks for the sound advice.

Any quick and easy way to get that old paint off? 80 grit on a Dynabrade?
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Old 07-08-2013, 03:40 PM
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80 grit on a DA will work, just keep your sander moving so that you don't create heat and warp a panel or you can use a chemical stripper...open up the paint/primer with 80 or 120 on the DA and apply the stripper....take off as much as you can, wash the vehicle down, wipe it dry and remove the rest with the DA.

Ray
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Old 07-08-2013, 11:37 PM
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if you have a buffer use that with a sanding pad on most of the car except the hood and decklid, unless you know how to work them good. They can warp hoods and decklids if you're not careful but will save you time when stripping. Stripping by DA would take forever and a waste of time. What also works good to break open stubborn paint when chemically stripper is hitting it with 40 grit and taking a blade and putting a bunch of "x" slices into it. It works great but chemically stripping is no fun, nor is it legal in some parts.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Here is the fact, many of these peelers happen because of too thin of clear. The clear doesn't offer the UV protection and the paint and primer break down under them. At least that is what I saw as a paint rep in the late 90's. The clear would come off with paint and even primer on the back side of the peeled piece. This tells you that the clear adhered to the paint, the paint breaking down is what caused the failure. As soon as the paint has no protection because the clear has peeled off it begins a very rapid degradation and this allows more UV to reach the primer under it. The primer is breaking down at a high rate being it has zero UV protectors.

Long story short when your repairing a peeler you strip it to bare metal and start from scratch.

Brian
Brian ,I believe thin clear is one cause but I've seen SS white peeling off too.After sanding the paint off, many times I find shiny epoxy and it looks to me like they simply missed the window for painting (the epoxy sat to long).
Most times you can scrape the clear off with a razor but the base coat is really stuck on there those are the ones thatI believe have the thin clear. but I'm no chemist I just kow how to fix them so I'm only guessing as to why they do it.one thing for sure,if I painted a car and it peeled I'd feel so bad I'd redo it at my expense,it doesnt seem to bother the manufacturers too much even Toyotas and Nissons are doing it now...
BTW the SPI epoxy does have UV protectors one more reason to use it I dont know of any others ...

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Old 07-09-2013, 05:11 AM
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As Brian pointed out the oem primer had no UV resistance. On the other hand SPI black epoxy has very good UV resistance. Barry has designed it for extended UV exposure without any top coatings. I think he said 3-5 years!

you can use any product you want, for me it is a no brainer - SPI.
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Old 07-09-2013, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
if you have a buffer use that with a sanding pad on most of the car except the hood and decklid, unless you know how to work them good. They can warp hoods and decklids if you're not careful but will save you time when stripping. Stripping by DA would take forever and a waste of time. What also works good to break open stubborn paint when chemically stripper is hitting it with 40 grit and taking a blade and putting a bunch of "x" slices into it. It works great but chemically stripping is no fun, nor is it legal in some parts.
dont forget the razor scraper, when it works its fastest and cleanest way to strip off paint then sand off the old epoxy with 80 da...I always TRY the razor first then pull out the bigger guns as I go. usually chem strip is second.Third would be 8" mud hog (gear diven DA) followed by regular Da to finish down to the metal...It all depends on whats on thereand how hard it is to get off..
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Old 07-09-2013, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
Brian ,I believe thin clear is one cause but I've seen SS white peeling off too.After sanding the paint off, many times I find shiny epoxy and it looks to me like they simply missed the window for painting (the epoxy sat to long).
Most times you can scrape the clear off with a razor but the base coat is really stuck on there those are the ones thatI believe have the thin clear. but I'm no chemist I just kow how to fix them so I'm only guessing as to why they do it.one thing for sure,if I painted a car and it peeled I'd feel so bad I'd redo it at my expense,it doesnt seem to bother the manufacturers too much even Toyotas and Nissons are doing it now...
BTW the SPI epoxy does have UV protectors one more reason to use it I dont know of any others ...
Oh yes there are a number of factors, depending on the manufacturer and the year of failure. One of my stops (though I never sold a thing there so I can't call them my "Customer".) was a Chevy dealer in Dublin where they had a dedicated booth for plastic bead blasting of GM paint failures. They did one after another, having a row of bare metal cars most every day. At that time, it was a general consensus on those GM cars at that time, that it was UV damage to the primer. But there were others I would see too. I have seen clear come off perfectly clean too like a sheet of saran wrap!

Brian
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