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Old 08-16-2008, 07:21 PM
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Replace manual trans with 4L80E - 1999 chevy dually

O.K. you guys, see if one of you can help me with this.....
I''ve recently aquired a 1999 chevy dually,crew cab, with a 454engine and a NV4500 tranny.
The engine is fine but tranny is busted to hell and back, due to previous owner desperately trying to shift with out a clutch.
I think that the slave or master cylinder went out . Anyway, I got the truck now and I want to swap the NV4500 for a 4L80E ,this way it''ll be idiot proof when it comes to various persons operating the vehicle. SO...this is what I wanted to know....

1.How hard is it to do this swap?

2.I forsee probable altering of the driveshaft, flywheel,and maybe radiator,and adding a floor shifter. But what about any wiring ,......and also what about my speedometer how will it need to be hooked up ?

3. what mfg. year on the 4L80E should I be getting?

4. Are there any other auto trans that would be good with this block (towing moderately heavy loads , at times)?

5. Does chosen transmision have to be electronic to perform in sync with this year model engine? (if not then which non-electronic trans may I use with good results)

thanks

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Old 08-17-2008, 12:46 AM
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You'd be further ahead to replace the trans with another manual.

Th700R4's have lived behind big blocks, and can be built very stout. A 'stock' 700 probably won't cut it. It's still advised to tow in manual '3' to save on parts.

4L80-E's are plenty strong but are obviously totally controlled electronically. To make it work in your truck, you would have to do a complete power train electronics swap from a donor truck like yours.

Another option is a TCU from TCI... Tack on an extra grand for that.

The output shaft on your trans is bigger than a 700 also. And a different length. and.. and...

You get the picture.

BTW- welcome to Hotrodders.
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Old 08-17-2008, 01:01 AM
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C-10 is right it would definetly be a chore to swap in the 4L80E. Computer & trans harness form donor truck. How about a TH400? Not sure if the manual trans sends a speedo signal to the computer or not, my guess it does.
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Old 08-17-2008, 05:40 AM
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I had an '88 1 ton extra cab 4x4, 4.10 gears, 454 with the "granny" 4 spd.....hated the damn trans. I had "The Toy Shop" in Pomona, Ca. build a GOOD! 700R4 w/ an 1800 L/U conv. I took the old shift lever off the 4 spd and had it tig welded to a B&M universal shifter handle that I cut down to about 4", or just below the shifter boot. I angled the shift lever towards the driver position so it was "right there" so to speak.

Also installed a manual L/U switch on the dash so I could lock the conv. in 2nd or 3rd when going up or down hills when towing my horse trailer. Two other things you want to do....a trans. temp gauge and the biggest trans. cooler you can fit behind the grill. This cost me about $1800 and it was the best money I ever spent on that truck, made a world of difference in drivability and gas consumption. All you have to do is find a very good trans shop thats REALLY knows how to build 700R4's and let them do the conversion. It will cost you a little more money but they will adjust the TV cable correctly so you don't burn it up the first few miles....good luck
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Old 08-17-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 327NUT
I had an '88 1 ton extra cab 4x4...
Unfortunately, the 88 and 99 trucks are completely different when it comes to electronics. Changing the 99 from MT to AT is a significant amount of work, as noted above. EVERYTHING is electronic, even with the MT, and the ECU software requires these inputs. Not only does the engine use the VSS input, but there are other sensors in the trans that look for internal slippage and modulate the line pressure in the 4L80E accordingly. All of this info is required for the OBDII electronics to work. The 1988 truck is only OBDI and doesn't have anywhere near the electronics interface.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:15 AM
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O.K. I assumed from the jump that this wouldn't be easy . So... let me get this right ......the "correct" ecm or the current ecm (the one set for the 454 /nv4500 combo) won't run the engine correctly without input from an electronnic transmission.And thus I'd have to scrap any ideas of using a non electronic trans .....Right???? Tell me what you guys think about this link vaccum modulator for 4L80E Can this Be used some how?
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryc
O.K. I assumed from the jump that this wouldn't be easy . So... let me get this right ......the "correct" ecm or the current ecm (the one set for the 454 /nv4500 combo) won't run the engine correctly without input from an electronnic transmission.And thus I'd have to scrap any ideas of using a non electronic trans .....Right???? Tell me what you guys think about this link vaccum modulator for 4L80E Can this Be used some how?
That may work if the ECM in your truck only needs the VSS signal from the manual trans. Which the 4L80E would also have. I'm not sure what type of input the 4L80E needs to power the VSS output, maybe just 12Volt hookup.
The 48-MOD Kit also needs the 4L80E-HD2 Shift Reprogramming Kit according to Transgo's site.
http://www.transgo.com/tough_stuff.php

http://www.transgo.com/rpg_generalmtr.php
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Old 08-21-2008, 09:22 PM
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The current PCM will operate the engine fine. Hook the VSS connector up to the rear VSS on the 4L80E trans. IF they are not the same connector , a repair kit pigtail from a GM dealer will splice the two wire cables together with the proper connector for the 4l80E. It should be a 5 volt feed

The truck's PCM will not control or shift the 4l80E since it is a manual trans unit. ... you need a stand alone controller for the 4l80E trans for automatic shifts.

The controller from Compushift.com will piggy back the TPS on the TBi on the 454 engine for throttle input signals for up shifts of the 4l80E.

The Compushift controller is very programmable to various setups on each shift , pressure for shifts

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Old 08-22-2008, 06:00 AM
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I appreciate you guy's input ....this is helpful...thanks!

O.K. let's see.. what do you guys think about this as a posible solution to my project.
Tell me if you guys think, that what these links have to offer, might be an good alternative solution to the computer issue. again thanks!

#1. chevy 3500 comp

#2. WIRING HARNESS EXTERNAL
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Old 08-22-2008, 09:26 AM
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There has been a lot of speculation on this thread and few facts. Get your hands on a Chassis Service Manual for the truck (I have one for my 99 K3500) and just take a look at all the various sensors and information that passes between the trans and the engine. The aftermarket parts you've shown from TransGo are for fully manual racing applications. The 4L80E uses computer-controlled shift solenoids to select the various gears. Simply installing a vac modulator still doesn't operate those solenoids.

More to the point, this truck has OBDII. When it doesn't receive the sensor inputs it is expecting, all hell breaks loose. This is NOT an easy swap. If you really want an automatic, fix the current truck, sell it, and buy a new one. Otherwise, get a factory manual and learn about all the stuff that needs to be changed.
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Old 08-22-2008, 08:44 PM
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(joe_padavano) Get your hands on a Chassis Service Manual for the truck (I have one for my 99 K3500) and just take a look at all the various sensors and information that passes between the trans and the engine.
Where do I get such a manual? How much is it?

Quote:
(joe_padavano) The aftermarket parts you've shown from TransGo are for fully manual racing applications.
I didn't post a link to TransGo .... I did post these links though.... WIRING-HARNESS-EXTERNAL ......and Chevy-3500-Comp .....and 4L80E-TRANSMISSION-VACUUM-MODULATOR ...... please take a look @ them and tell me what you think.

Quote:
(joe_padavano) If you really want an automatic, fix the current truck, sell it, and buy a new one. Otherwise, get a factory manual and learn about all the stuff that needs to be changed.
I do realize and see definite issues with this swap,even though some of the post on this topic at times seem like and could be ,"a lot of speculation on this thread and few facts". However I am personally grateful for the info that I can verify as factual.....I'm on a fact finding mission....as I always do before jumping into things that I lack hands on experience or knowledge about. Any way..... the problems that you point out as fact are not scary enough for me to stop entertaining this swap..BUt believe me ... if it were, I'd be going FROM a NV4500 to a NV4500...For SURE!!!
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Old 08-23-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tryc
Where do I get such a manual? How much is it?

http://www.helminc.com/helm/homepage.asp?r=

The basic CSM is a four volume set, of which most of vols 2 and 3 are engine management electronics. There's a supplementary two volume set that covers components like the transmissions and axles. The whole set takes up over a foot of bookshelf space.

Quote:
I didn't post a link to TransGo .... I did post these links though.... WIRING-HARNESS-EXTERNAL ......and Chevy-3500-Comp .....and 4L80E-TRANSMISSION-VACUUM-MODULATOR ...... please take a look @ them and tell me what you think.
Look again, the vac modulator is a TransGo part.

Quote:
I do realize and see definite issues with this swap,even though some of the post on this topic at times seem like and could be ,"a lot of speculation on this thread and few facts". However I am personally grateful for the info that I can verify as factual.....I'm on a fact finding mission....as I always do before jumping into things that I lack hands on experience or knowledge about. Any way..... the problems that you point out as fact are not scary enough for me to stop entertaining this swap..BUt believe me ... if it were, I'd be going FROM a NV4500 to a NV4500...For SURE!!!
Good for you, This isn't impossible, but it's much more work than most people think. The OBDII software is not readily modified and you'll need a TechII or similar unit to reflash the ECM (there is no longer a replaceable chip). The harness is different between the manual and automatic, as is the software. The OBDII will trigger check engine lights for just about any loss of sensor data, so if you require emissions testing where you live, this is grounds for failure. Doing this right requires a lot of parts or a fairly complete donor truck. To be honest, I'm not sure it's a cost-effective swap (though, rarely are my car repair decisions "cost effective" anyway...)
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