which respirator with 2k primer? - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 12:35 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 302/Z28
The key to using a carbon respirator while spraying paint containing isocyonates is "in air" concentration. If you are using only a cartridge type respirator long enough to paint a car in a non ventilated garage you are probably getting a dose of isocyonates. A dual cartridge carbon respirator will become saturated in a very short time in a high concentration area. Due to the fact that isocyonates are odorless you will not realize it. Changing the filters when you can sense a restriction is not good enough when dealing with isocyonates, IMO it's too late by that time.

The filter manufactures intentionally disallow isocyonates as a disclaimer to avoid possibility of a lawsuit due to the nasty nature of isocyonates.

Vince
**********************************************
This is exactly right. Niosh rates the charcoal filters as OK for ISO's but the manufacturers say no for lawsuit reasons. Also if in an enclosed not ventilated area you better be covered head to toe.
The normal paint booth or open garage the dual cartages work just fine, goggles are always a good idea.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 12:59 PM
cboy's Avatar
Member
 

Last journal entry: Finished
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Atwater, CA
Age: 69
Posts: 3,918
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
BarryK,

Willys touched on this but hopefully you can shed some additional light. What, exactly, IS on the horizon for automotive paints in terms of providing a product that isn't going to poison the painter or the environment? And how far off is that horizon?

I have been considering an actual paint job on the rat rod once it is done. If I stay with the primer look I'm going to use one part flat enamel. And if I go with a color I'm seriously thinking about cheapo acrylic enamel or acrylic lacquer. Seems like the lessor of the evils to me in terms of safety. The enamel is unforgiving and the lacquer is a lot more work and less durable (plus has some bad side effects as well)...but for the hobbyist without an air fed respirator, full body suit, and perfectly ventilated paint booth, it just seems like the safer choice.
__________________
Always learning...and sharing what I've learned. The Scratch-Built Hot Rod.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 01:47 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
[QUOTE=cboy]BarryK,

Willys touched on this but hopefully you can shed some additional light. What, exactly, IS on the horizon for automotive paints in terms of providing a product that isn't going to poison the painter or the environment? And how far off is that horizon?

************************************************** ***
Well in short, long after you and I are gone.

Uv cured, Waterborne they are touted as safer because they don't have iso's
but its a trade off with the other chemicals used. In my book they're not a bit safer.
Back about 3 years ago Randy Wein wrote a one pager in ABRN about how unsafe waterborne were and had put a lot of study into this for about 6 months before he wrote it and the majors threaten to pull advertising unless he was banned, remember a full page ad is $15,000 per issue, yes he was banned. Bad timing because at the time PPG was pushing the water-basecoat
fro ICI they had purchased as safe, safe and safe.

Stick your finger in urethane reducer and 15 seconds later it will show up in a urine test.
I just don't see anything major coming down the pike, Most of the RDC money is going to the UV cured products but there are major problems and expense issues so for now maybe small spots of primer but the home doer is not going to spend $1500 for a lamp to cure a 1 foot section.
Is it safer, other than less over spray, I done think it is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 01:57 PM
willys36@aol.com's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: How to rebuild a Rochester Quadrajet 4MV carbureto...
Last journal entry: How to change auto shift timing on 200R4
Last photo:
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bakersfield
Posts: 8,393
Wiki Edits: 21

Thanks: 1
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
I have to die of something anyway and am going to enjoy life in the mean time. I will continue spraying whatever w/ my nifty 3-M charcoal filter in my 3000cfm evacuated paint booth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-06-2005, 08:12 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio
Age: 29
Posts: 35
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yea iso's are pretty nasty stuff, but I don't have enough for a fresh air supply hood yet. so what exactly is the chromate free 2k primer different from the other 2k primers from HOK? do these have Iso's ? Also the primer sealer ,ko-seal 2 has iso's in it? I have contacted HOK about msds sheets but no replys.

between the hok 2k primers which is safer:
KP-2CF KWIKURE EPOXY PRIMER (chromate free)
KP-21 KWIKURE EPOXY PRIMER

and theres also two ko-seal II sealers, one is 2.1 voc and the other is 4.58 voc

heres the link to the different HOK products link
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2005, 08:38 AM
Bee4Me's Avatar
Problem Child,Hard Case
 

Last journal entry: Strangest job I've ever done
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ARK.
Age: 57
Posts: 1,773
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Iso's a really only used in Clear's.
They are strongest when in their free nomer state which is when you open their container and are pouring into the cup.So use a resp WHEN mixing.
A regular respirator is fine for shooting anything other than them.
Chromates and such are additives which are kinda nasty in their own right but no where near the caliber of ISO's.
Young people believe they are indestructible and can breath straight acid fumes and rock on the next day,myself included,BUT,
IT WILL CATCH UP WITH YOU.
I'm paying the price now for my misguided youth and TRUST ME on this...


Take CARE of YOURSELF NOW and you won't regret it later.


I have basically spent the last 3 weeks fighting a upper respiratory infection due primarily in part ot my job (Sheetmetal change out work,DUST<MOLD) along with grinding,sanding,welding on the 59 mostly without a mask of sorts.
3 trips to the doctor and several prescriptions later,I'm back to normal,sort of.

I know better but still I persist in being an idiot some days.

Get a mask ,ANY mask, and keep yourself healthy to get that ride finished in timely fashion. Nothing worse than laying in bed sick WISHING you were working on the project instead.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-07-2005, 08:08 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Georgia
Posts: 3,578
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 10
Thanked 61 Times in 39 Posts
First, I know nothing about the house of color primers as they are not the same thing as when John owned the company.

I assume you are talking about "lead Chromate" did not know they offered it but although going back 20 years it has been removed from most products we spray there are still yellows, some reds and orange colors that have them.

No body take this the wrong way, as I believe in protecting yourself as much as anyone but i spent over 10 years spray chromate loaded products like a lot of the old folks have on here and its not something thats is going to do you in with one time use (WITH A RESPIRATOR) it builds in your system over time like ISO'S do. Yes if in a closed up room with a lot of iso's and no mask you could die but we don't paint in closed up rooms with no airflow.

Will you shoot this epoxy one time a year?
If you don't smoke and spend a night at a bar and smoke a pack of cigs, will you get cancer?
Not likely!

Spray in a place with airflow and wear a good respirator and if you can afford it buy a fresh air system but as often as us part-timers paint if we use common sense its really not a problem.

Perhaps this is the last person a statement like this should come from and I'm not trying to kill anyone here, just trying to point out that over exposure to anything can kill you or cause cancer and gas is a good example "can cause cancer" By filling up you car everyday? No, but play in it 8 hours a day and it can.

Probably would have been better off not to have written this but hope you understand what I'm trying to say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2005, 03:06 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ohio
Age: 29
Posts: 35
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
yes allot of people don't realize how bad the auto paintis. I will be painting probably 2 bikes when still using a charchol respirator (new cartridge each time) after that I will have enough profit to buy the sata air hood and thier filtration system, and also a homade 10x10 spraybooth. but hopefully I will be up to 4 bikes a month.

They have one primer called KP-21 which doesnt say it has chromates but then thiers also one thats chromate free for just a little more money. From what I've gathered so far the primers don't have Iso's but the sealers do because they use the same catalyst as the clears (ku-150??) but from a recent study by OSHA they say that the masks will filter Iso's

quote:
"Isocyanate exposures were generally below the various evaluation criteria. One sample did exceed the NIOSH ceiling RELs indicating a need for protective measures. NIOSH recommends air supplied respirators whenever there is the potential for exposure to isocyanates. There are no NIOSH approved air-purifying respirators for isocyanates because isocyanates have no odor warning properties to indicate breakthrough of the cartridge. Studies have shown that combination dust/mist and organic cartridges effectively stop isocyanates and that the various solvents, particularly n-butyl acetate, will break through the cartridge long before the isocyanates.32-34 Therefore, the combination dust/mist/organic air-purifying respirators should provide adequate protection against the small amounts of isocyanate present and the n-butyl acetate odor can be used to indicate breakthrough of the cartridges. Eye and skin protection also needs to be provided with isocyanate monomers."

just some food for thought
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2005, 06:53 AM
mrcleanr6's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: new jersey
Age: 40
Posts: 716
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
if its a catalyzed urethane (primer or clear) it will have iso's. epoxy, like the kp-21 is a whole different ballgame and doesn't have it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maaco vs. At-Home Paint Job nightrain_rod Body - Exterior 127 08-26-2012 04:07 AM
Bare Metal Mollard Body - Exterior 71 09-25-2008 02:48 PM
"Basic of Basics" What kind of paint should I use? Centerline Body - Exterior 5 10-22-2007 12:32 AM
"Basic of Basics" What are the new paints all about? Centerline Body - Exterior 0 07-26-2004 07:43 AM
2k Primer scraping off? Need help misteryu Body - Exterior 1 07-17-2004 05:55 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.