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Old 02-21-2006, 01:54 PM
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Response to cuda

"cuda,

In response to your 3 year old's screaming hissie fit you pulled below,

I designed, developed and manufacture my own electronic ignition systems, have done so for 15 years now. And, yes, I know how to determin and set curves correctly for the engine in question, no worries.

BTW, how come so few curves in your database? I have just at 15,000.

Also, I AM a real, live, full time Professional Distributor Shop and ignition system manufacturer. Get your facts straight before proving you are wrong, read "Confucius say" below.

I consider MSD products to be one of the best product lines in the aftermarket. I've NEVER seen or heard of your stuff, so I can't comment on it, why is that now? You tell us here you alone are the best in the industry, the only one who knows what he is doing, but why haven't I ever heard of you.....

I worked for a few places in the industry, Chevrolet Special Projects, the Skunk works, my boss was Zora Arkus-Duntov. I worked on engine/powertrain packages and fine tuning of same..

I also worked at Holley 4 years, Pro-Stock carb division, I cut 'em in half, widened them, and serviced the carbs for Lea Shepherd, Reher/Morrison and Bob Glidden.

I also bail lots of people out of situations that people at manufacturer's places simply recommend "fixes" that don't work.

One of those fixes is the ZZ series dists for those crate engines. They ALL use the same dist and curves stock. But then, if you are as knowledgeable as you insist we believe you are, you already knew that.

Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but the dist in question on the topic YOU got locked is for a stocker engine, and my recommendations would have fixed it.

Sorry you got your knickers in a knot over my recommendations, but you are way off base.

Now, as far as BG carbs, a regular guy type user doesn't want to have a to need a super-duper carb guru to have to show up, just to get the out of the box carb he just laid out a bunch of money for workikng right. He wants to spend not too much money, and expects the part to work as described, right out of the box.

The regular user guy doesn't have the years and years of experience you have, they work at other jobs to make the money extorted from them for stuff that needs guys like you to fix from new. Maybe you can dial one of the BG's in, in one fast heartbeat, with your vast experience, but others just are not capable of it, and shouldn't have to pay someone to do it on a brand new carb that should already work.

"Confucius say: "Sometimes it is better to keep one's mouth shut and look stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Yes, how true, you should pay particular attention to this saying and abide by it.

Mr. Ignitionman,
You started out with a pretty decent post explaining the basics of ignition timing and relayed some pretty accurate info. I don't agree with your one size/one curve fit's all idealism but what you have written should keep most out of trouble, optimum performance won't be there but they will run. By reading over this post it seems that "Will Run" is your standard and fine-tuning is possibly beyond your ability.

We curved 1341 distributors last year, everything from your Z motors to Studebakers, street rods to Baja Buggy's, boats to tree chippers. You have not addressed how the vehicle weight, gear, tire size, convertor, application all contribute to the fine-tuning for optimum performance. Just telling these guy's to do this and do that and it'll be perfect is like bolting on a 600 Eddy Carb, yes it'll run, but your leaving a lot of performance on the table.

To everyone following this post.....Get your distributor curved by a Professional Distributor Shop, setting a distributor to the engine is only 1/2 the job. Everything in your combination must be considered before the final curve can be determined, unless of course good enough is good enough, then follow Mr. I's instructions and it'll run.

We have logged over 2500 ignition curves in a spreadsheet and we continually compare combinations found in this data to determine the correct curve for the application. It's not Voodoo magic or smoke and mirrors, it's 40 years of hands on logged data, when it leaves our shop it's correct, every time.

We are the Company that manufactures the large bushings for the MSD Pro Billet distributors, we designed Mopar ECU's that work, the best coils on the market and many other highly specialized products for the performance industry. We sell our products World Wide through our Authorized Dealer network in Canada, Europe and the throughout the USA.

If you search Chevy, Ford or Mopar Ignition Tuning on Goggle you'll find us right at the top of every page and we've been there for the 12 years we've had a web presence. If you understand how Google works you'll know how we got to the top....it wasn't by turning out Magic "One size fit's all" Distributors or offering Magical fixes for tuning issues.

I find your comments about BG products to be typical of someone who can't tune a carburetor; perhaps you should stick with the EFI on your Honda.
We've been with Barry since 1994, right back to his roots of rebuilding and modifying Holley carbs so they'll actually work. If Holley's are so good why is it that you can find at minimum 200 companies that do so many modifications?

We have 3 race cars, all BG equipped from pump to carbs, we run a King Demon (2004 S/Pro Track Champion), a Race Demon RS (2005 Track Champion), a Mighty Demon (5th in points on a limited season), so if these carbs are so bad as you would like people to believe, would you care to meet me in the first round? In 2005 my Race Demon took me to 11 Final rounds with 9 wins, the 2005 Track Championship the Division 6 ET Challange Championship and missed winning the Race Of Champions on a .0015 breakout.

We sell at minimum 500 BG Carbs a year with 100% success, ZERO returns and maximum performance. We also run a tech line on BG products and the problems breakdown approximately as follows:

1. 40% Incorrect ignition timing events or ignition system.
2. 30% Incorrect Carb for the application
3. 20% Inability of the operator to understand "Righty Tighty Lefty Lucy"
4. 10% Engine/Driveline combinations so poor that nobody could ever tune a carb to work properly.

I am not stating that BG Products are flawless; we've seen a few minor things that at times make us wonder who assembled it, but as I said they are generally very minor and they are addressed here, before they ever go to a customer.

We communicate any concerns we have with the factory, our concerns are not taken lightly, they are addressed and we are always advised of any changes that are made to correct the problem as needed.

Anyone who buys a carb or any other aftermarket product and I don't care who made it should carefully go over it and check to be sure it's assembled correctly and any issues addressed before it's installed. We disassemble every carb before it leaves our shop, we do a good baseline set-up on it based on the engine combo and our years of experience over thousands of vehicles.
Every carb customer is given the correct Ignition timing events for their combination and given a choice of sending it to us or having some local shop set it to our specs.

We also send a complimentary copy our 38 page tuning guide to every customer, this alone reduces our tech calls by 75%.

If the customer follows our instructions, installs it correctly, does the final tuning as per our instructions, the carb will perform flawlessly and offer the best dollar for dollar performance you can invest in your Hot Rod.

In our shop we have overhauled, tuned and repaired almost every type of carb made (We're getting out of this service so don't call us for service) except for Eddys, we will not work on them, tune or offer any help on Eddy carbs, never - ever - no way!

So with all this said and a clear statement of our qualifications and our success rate with BG Carbs I find your complaints unfounded, your comments towards BG Tech and Barry Grant Inc. rude and your knowledge of this product and this industry poor at best.

Your fueling unfounded rumors, disseminating false information and purposely down grading a good American Product and Company based on personal opinions and not hard facts.

Your comments remind me of the guy who called and stated that he would never ever use a MSD Pro Billet distributor, when asked why he stated that he installed one on his bone stock 318 1/2 ton pick-up, it detonated and wouldn't idle no matter what he did, reinstalled his stock ignition and it worked great, so I guess according to your theroy Pro Billet distributors are junk.

Confucius say: "Sometimes it is better to keep one's mouth shut and look stupid than to open it and remove all doubt"

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgnitionMan
"cuda,

In response to your 3 year old's screaming hissie fit you pulled below.


"Confucius say: "Sometimes it is better to keep one's mouth shut and look stupid than to open it and remove all doubt" Yes, how true, you should pay particular attention to this saying and abide by it.

Why did this deserve it's own new thread? Do you feel better now?

***************************************
Granpa always said,

"What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you are saying."

"Never argue with an idiot, someone watching might not be able to tell the difference".

Last edited by xntrik; 02-21-2006 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 02-21-2006, 02:28 PM
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just calm down dude. its one thing to argue in a thread... but for the love of god dont post an entirely new thread just to talk sh**. That is very childish and immature.

Now it seems to me like your just trying to fight with Cuda and trying to provoke him.

Grow up!

Everybody has their opinions on which brand is better, to each his own.
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Old 02-21-2006, 03:50 PM
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Whats a spreadsheet? LOL
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Old 02-21-2006, 03:56 PM
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Something to do with betting I think . . .
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Bringing history and technology together.
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Old 02-21-2006, 04:14 PM
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Maybe it goes on the bed?
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Old 02-21-2006, 04:26 PM
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Methinks Mr. Ignition man should be asked to start his own web forum. At the rate he is going right now, I think he will not be posting here for much longer.

I have a lot of respect for Tech@BG and don't think hammering him on possibe problems withe BG carbs is very productive.

tom
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Old 02-21-2006, 05:40 PM
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I think being bias in either case is a matter of popularity. I feel if either is willing to participate in a bash, it shows a lack of professionalism. I believe this forum offers the use of PM (PRIVATE MESSAGES) use it wisely...



2wld4u
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Old 02-21-2006, 06:48 PM
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I'm just curious, who in their right mind starts a pissing match in a TWO YEAR OLD thread? only a troll. go check the dates. not sure if i want info from anyone that damn dumb.
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Old 02-22-2006, 06:49 AM
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There are a lot of good products that get bashed for one reason or another.I put a new carb on my drag car and it slowed down 2 tenths. I screwed with that thing for a couple of hours before I found that it wasn't the carb, but that my converter just took a s**t. You need to keep an open mind on all of these parts. I have listened to guys arguing about how there set up is best and watched all of them go out in the first round.
Bob
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Old 02-22-2006, 11:32 AM
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Take care, guys, I'm outta here.

I have 4 distributors for today that need to be correctly set up for their particular engines/vehicles, that came from just being curved, didn't work for caca, and all are from the shops cuda recommends, "Professional Distributor Shops, from all over the country.

I'm happy fixing other's crap work, just proves that what I have posted is the truth, too bad you lot aren't interested in that truth.

It is really reassuring to know people on this board choose to listen to, and believe those who aren't being square with them, and your now self-appointed God of the universe, cuda.

Too bad you people just cant handle the reral truth.

You guys sure do like this Fantasyland, don't you.

Moderator, lock this post.
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Old 02-22-2006, 12:07 PM
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What old post is this guy going off about?

Steve
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Old 02-22-2006, 12:10 PM
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IgnitionMan, I have read several of your posts, and found them to contain mostly good, useful information. Several issues I have come across at work with distributors have been helped by your info. This said, I do believe that is was the method of transmission that raised some peoples ire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgnitionMan
Well, once again, lots of experts with NO good info to give.
The people here are not all professional ignition experts, and are posting solutions that are based on the knowledge that they have, which may be extensive in both building and tuning areas. Wheather this info is 100% spot on, I can't say. I do know that if you begin by telling someone that their info and knowledge is useless, it starts things off on the wrong foot.

You seem to be very knowledgeable on ignition systems. Your info could be very helpful to many people. Tech@BG, wheather you like BG carbs or not, is very knowledgable about carbs and tuning issues. To attack him based on who he works for was more than a little questionable, but if we can all agree that there are issues where we need to agree to disagree and let it go at that, we all will benefit from the experiance of both of you.
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Old 02-22-2006, 12:18 PM
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Well, personally, given your attitude and how you like to insult everyone on here, pro's or not, i'm happy to see you go. I hope you stay real busy and don't have time to ever come back. Bye Bye!!!!

Mark

(Gee, wish I knew everything! then I could be special like him!)
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Old 02-22-2006, 12:28 PM
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Man i thought it was just me he did not like.... I asked him a question and he never answered me.....

Having knowledge is an awesome thing, sharing it with fellow rodders is a good thing. Being a total a** about it is a troll thing.....


Keith

Last edited by k-star; 02-22-2006 at 01:22 PM.
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