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rewiring help

3K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  DaSouthWon 
#1 ·
I am rewiring my 67 ford truck. I have just purchased a 460 crate motor from ford. It came with a MSD ignition system. I purchased a wiring system from ron francis and have just struggled with the wiring of the NSS and the starter/solenoid. Being a ford I guess I needed a starter solenoid. This is the first wiring I have done. They sell alot of these wiring kits, does everyone have problems? Is there more to this than they say. Painless,Francis, ect. all say how easy it is. Does anyone have a idea of what I might do to solve these problems. I have been thinking of calling someone in the business to come in and finish/fix this for me. I was hoping to learn more about the wiring. How have some of you completed this job.
 
#3 ·
NSS=neutral safety switch

the ign key start circuit is just a contacts series circuit,,,

key in start position=switch on,,, and tranny in park or neutral only=switch on,,,then power can get to the solonoid relay "S" terminal which closes the batt to starter motor cable contacts "switch" inside the solonoid to be "on" so the starter does crank....

without a NSS the starter will engage in any gear at any speed if you accidently turned the switch to start position...
 
#4 ·
I am have a problem trying to incorporate a starter solenoid into the system with a Neutral Safety Switch (NSS) and Ron Francis wiring kit. The wiring diagrams are not helping me and I am at a loss. I am not sure how many wires go to the starter. The Ron Francis kit I am using was fine up intell I got to the Bag BF Starter/Distributor. I have a MSD ignition (Electronic) and nothing matches. Wire colors do not correspond with the instuctions. The diagrams I have got on this site makes it sound so easy. When I go out to put that to use; my brain stops working.

Now that I have read the survey on wiring kit approvals; I would buy a painless next.

Just trying to learn
Kirk
 
#5 ·
I just talked to tech at Ron Francis. The purple wire marked starter > #3; I ran from the terninal #3 on thefuse panel to the starter. That is marked wrong. It should say #3 > Starter Solenoid. I hooked it to the starter. WRONG. The orange wire says coil > starter. This wire is not used in my application with a MSD ignition :pain: The other orange and white wire with the module connection is also not used :drunk: This might get me one step forward. I still want to hear from everyone elses experience. It will help me and others. I will keep you all posted as I move on.

Kirk
 
#6 · (Edited)
often helps just to see diagrams done differently.....

67' truck is almost exactly the same as a 65-67 mustang....

here's a link to the original Ford diagrams that show the circuit(s) and color codes and actual devices....
(I'd use the 65 or 66 starting and charging diagrams for reference)

http://www.hammar.dyndns.org/~djhamma/wiring.htm

you can wire the start circuit thru a "batt direct" fuse (like the interior lights circuit) in the car.....
makes a nifty anti-theft deterent, pull the fuse and the motor won't crank....
most fuse panels are wired for both batt direct fuse locations and "only when the key is in the on position" circuits like a heater blower....

not real smart but notice in the stang diagrams there is no fuse protection on the primary batt feed into the car (#37), ign switch is wired direct to the batt connect at the solonoid stud.....
it was done due to the points ign,,,

edit add: the how to MSD instructions and diagrams are on their web site....
 
#7 · (Edited by Moderator)
REPLY on RON FRANCIS WIRING

Hi,
I'm Ron Francis from Ron Francis wiring. I am sorry you are having difficulty wiring your Mustang. First I must say that our tech departement is available to answer any questions you have and WILL solve any problems you have. We'd appreicate you asking us before going out on the web looking for help when we encourage you to ask us first. Our 800-***-**** number answers your questions from the people who designed it. All we need is the serial number on the side of your fuse panel to answer your questions correctly.

Second PLEASE do compare other diagrams from ANY other source when you wire our kits. There are many correct ways to wire the same components. EVERY system is or can be done differently. The printing on the wires should be your source of direction. This is because we sometimes take a wire thru the fuse panel or other component for ease of installation and troubleshooting. This can change what you might see drawn up somewhere else. That does not mean either way is wrong. Please just do it our way with our products. Doing it the way Ford does it is not always the best or easiest when it comes to an after market harness. Notice how our instrcutions are only a few pages.
BTW, Purchasing another brand of wiring that has 42 page books for instructions might not be the best solution. Our tech help is available during the day and now you have my email which is also shown on our home page at www.**********.com
 
#10 ·
Ron, as a Moderator here, I'd like to welcome you to Hotrodders.com. :welcome:

We can always use knowledgable help here in the electrical forum :thumbup:

Please read our guidelines for posting, we don't allow business contact information in posts.

Check it out here..

http://www.hotrodders.com/help/board/business.html

You can edit your own post using the "edit" button at the bottom of your post.

Later, Mikey
 
#11 ·
Kirk,
I do want to agree with and re-emphasize what Ron Francis posted....

there are several/many basic EASY TO SEE signifigant design faults in the oem harness link design/layout....

to the point that all you can say is: "what the hell were they thinking,,,we're they all stoned on acid or something!!!!!"

so do use the stang link diagrams just for "what was", not for "what it should be!!"

I enjoy doing it all from scratch myself....
(the old cars are so straight forward and simple)
My 65' fastback is totally rewired and the diagram looks almost nothing like those oem link diagrams circuits....
 
#13 ·
Ron Francis said:
BTW, Purchasing another brand of wiring that has 42 page books for instructions might not be the best solution. Our tech help is available during the day and now you have my email which is also shown on our home page at www.**********.com
Why is a 42 page install manual an issue?? I noticed Painless has their manuals available online. Kinda nice if you need a point of reference after hours, even if it isn't one of their harness'.
 
#14 ·
fitzwell said:
Why is a 42 page install manual an issue?? I noticed Painless has their manuals available online. Kinda nice if you need a point of reference after hours, even if it isn't one of their harness'.
I keep a few of the Painless manuals around from past projects, they have schematics that I've found are helpful for other projects.

Later, mikey
 
#15 ·
Ron, and Others

First i'd like to take a moment and just say how much I love your Ron Frances wiring kits. I am a electrician by trade, and work mainly in the heavy commercial, industrial end and I'm very comfortable with motor control circuits and logic/Programmer circuits. I purchased a Bare Bones wiring kit for my Ford, a 1933 Ford Tudor sedan that I'll be dropping a Modern 4.6L Ford DOHC SC engine into. Besides the 130 wires needed for the engine, it has an additional 79 wires to run the N2O, Data acq system, Water Injection and so on. The Ron Frances wiring kit I bought, is really nice, yes I could have just started from scratch and wired the thing, but I had no way to access the many marked/labeled wires, that I think adds to the value of any Hot Rod restoration. Besides making my job much easier, it also increases the value of the car (this is of-coarse in my opinion), as all the wiring is clearly marked for anyone to follow, which I think makes the ideal of buying someone else's work much easier to phantom. Besides that, I found it very nice to just kick back and enjoy the time I spent wiring the car. Of-coarse I'm not finished, and like any other build, you do a little here then some there, and your kits make the task of wiring a project so much easier. Gone is the worry of marking the wires, making charts and wiring diagrams, with the wires already labeled, you have nothing to worry about. That is one reason I purchased as many additional wiring groups as your store sold, groups like courtesy lights, heater, power antenna and so on, make the job wonderful to work on, and I'm sure if I do decide to sell the car, well help the new owner out as well.
I no wiring is a very stressful task for some, but I just wanted everyone to know that these kits with there labeled wiring and additional groups can be very helpful.
 
#16 ·
I have Ron Francis Express wiring kits in both my '34 Chevy and '41 Ford. I have found these kits extremely user friendly and the tech support superior to anything else I have personally experience (I replaced a 'Pain****' kit in my '34 with the Ron Francis). Painless has good tech support and a decent kit, I personally prefer the fact that the fuse panel is not pre terminated with the Ron Francis stuff, so I could run wires either from the panel out or the device in.

Now, regarding the Neutral Safety Switch issue, once you get the wiring straight, there is typically a contact setup wired at the base of your shifter to open and close appropriately. (GM is often up in the column).
 
#17 ·
I must say that I am impressed that Ron Francis took the time to address a customers problem. I think it would be nice if Ron would help solve the problem in the forum. It not only shows the companies committment to customer satisfaction in writing, but also provides a future reference point for others that may have the same problem. I bought another Painless kit 2 days ago for a 69 c-10 pickup because of the response I recieved, from painless, to a previous post. The Mopar guy from Painless made sure that all my problems were solved and that I was happy with their product, and on 1 occasion spent over an hour with me on the phone walking me through a part of the installation I was having difficulty with.

I personally have never installed a Ron Francis wiring harness. However I have learned from experience that many of the wiring kits made include wiring for several different wiring scenarios in one kit. Find out which connections are applicable to your situation and setup.

As far as the neutral safety switch is concerned, it depends on your transmission. Some auto transmissions have an electrical circuit built in to them that is only closed when the transmission is in park or neutral. If this is the case in your situation, you simply wire the "crank" position only wire on the back of your key switch in series with this circuit. This way the circuit is only complete if the car is in P or N.
 
#19 ·
For me I got a bare circuit fuss box, made the rest of the harness myself, including relays using NAPA supplies. The parts sold by Napa are top notch, especially if one likes to solder the connections and terminals in Lu of smash and crimp method....
Speaking about relays, one point overlooked about relay control is that the use of them also protects the switches,if you add a cap across the relay contacts it will prevent arching and contact burning, the same way it does on the points.

Home made, shorter wire runs and less waste, wiring is very easy. The best hint I would throw out is this, work one circuit at a time, form power feed too termination, by following the circuit to it's completion you will know if the wiring is right. After that if you want some reassurance, grad your meter and ring the circuit out, that meter will tell the story real fast.

Say dasouthwon, nice idea for Ron Franks ......... but here is my take , if I were Ron, I am thinking two things first I make my living at this stuff and when DONE at the end of the day wish to get my reward of chilling. Beside how many times can a person answer the 1 wire alternator question.

People in there various professions spend all day taking calls with question from paying customers that fail to do the most basic things to try and solve there own problems.Which in the end has a payback of knowledge gained by that person.
Looking around what I see is lazy folks that have a knee jerk reaction to a problem and that reaction is to grab a phone/cell phone and call someone

Pretty poor
 
#20 ·
I agree, Pepi. However, my usual reaction to a problem is to look on one of these sites, because 9 times out of 10, someone has had the exact same issue. I realize work is work and life is life, and you must seperate the 2. However at 8:00 pm on a sunday evening very few tech lines are open, and posting help here may just eliminate a few calls down the road as well as eliminate the need for a paid tech to spend 20 minutes on the phone explaining a problem he has explained 100 times before.
 
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