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Old 02-19-2008, 10:52 PM
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Rich running Buick Estate

I have been tinkering on a 1986 Buick Estate Wagon and have ran into a problem with the Electronic Q-Jet running really really rich. 1st upon purchase it ran so bad that I thought the cat. converter was plugged-nope, it had been removed. I had the carb rebuilt, that help tremendously but still ran rich, next replaced plugs, fuel filter, timed it, replaced oxygen sensor, still rich; also the check engine light comes on every time you let off the gas for any length of time. Did I also mention that it seems to run well and has decent power at times, but at other times is painfully slow. After going up a steep hill today after coming to a complete stop I didn't think I was going to make it until I dropped her down into 2nd. I do think the timing may still be off a couple of degrees and will correct that tomorrow. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am thinking of going to the dealership next but really hate to throw in the towel!

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Old 02-20-2008, 11:23 AM
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In the mid '80s There were some issues with some cannister purge valves, they would act up and suck in raw fuel from the tank instead of just vapors like they are intended to... Happened to a relative with an '84 Chevy... worth a check, if you pull the vacuum hose from the canister to the carb/intake and its wet inside it could be that valve. His symptoms were similar to yours.
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Old 02-20-2008, 05:48 PM
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You may also want to take a look at teh EGR valve and make sure it is not stuck. There is a solenoid on the carb that controls mixture to a point, it could be bad or the computer may be holding it open. I am fairly sure that car will run with the computer unplugged, try it and see if it does and if it runs better.
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:55 PM
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A faulty MAP sensor will cause these symptoms also. Check the coolant temp sender for the computer. it is a 2 wire sender by the thermostat housing.
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:38 AM
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I am off next Monday and will give it a try then. I really like this old car-she is never going to be like her 70's versions were but she is still a great American ride! With any luck and some prayers the real cars of yesterday will return. Until then we still have SUV's and pickups! Thanks again for all your input!
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:58 AM
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Real Cars

To All,

Thanks for all of your input on my Buick, on Monday I will get under the hood again and see what I can figure out based on your advice. I touched on this in my last email but is anyone else as sick of government control over my automobile as I am? Do I think my car hurts the planet in any way? NO, not only do I not believe that but I can without a doubt prove it. A large volcanic erruption puts out more hydrocarbons than all of mankind has since the beginning of the industial revolution. Are running out of oil? NO, in fact if every person on the planet drove a V10 Ford Excursion over the next 1,000 years we would still not be even close to using any of the worlds oil reserves. Why? Because oil is a byproduct of the hot molten earth, and we will never consume even a fraction of it. Should I, (we) should downsize our cars until non-exsistence? NO, NEVER, I WILL FIGHT UNTIL DEATH TO PRESERVE WHAT I KNOW AS TRUE . 60,000 people (teens mostly) die in car accidents a year in the US, many could have been prevented in a large car.
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser68
To All,

Thanks for all of your input on my Buick, on Monday I will get under the hood again and see what I can figure out based on your advice. I touched on this in my last email but is anyone else as sick of government control over my automobile as I am? Do I think my car hurts the planet in any way? NO, not only do I not believe that but I can without a doubt prove it. A large volcanic erruption puts out more hydrocarbons than all of mankind has since the beginning of the industial revolution. Are running out of oil? NO, in fact if every person on the planet drove a V10 Ford Excursion over the next 1,000 years we would still not be even close to using any of the worlds oil reserves. Why? Because oil is a byproduct of the hot molten earth, and we will never consume even a fraction of it. Should I, (we) should downsize our cars until non-exsistence? NO, NEVER, I WILL FIGHT UNTIL DEATH TO PRESERVE WHAT I KNOW AS TRUE . 60,000 people (teens mostly) die in car accidents a year in the US, many could have been prevented in a large car.

OoooooKaaaaay
Were you up a little late last night?
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruiser68
I have been tinkering on a 1986 Buick Estate Wagon and have ran into a problem with the Electronic Q-Jet running really really rich. 1st upon purchase it ran so bad that I thought the cat. converter was plugged-nope, it had been removed. I had the carb rebuilt, that help tremendously but still ran rich, next replaced plugs, fuel filter, timed it, replaced oxygen sensor, still rich; also the check engine light comes on every time you let off the gas for any length of time. Did I also mention that it seems to run well and has decent power at times, but at other times is painfully slow. After going up a steep hill today after coming to a complete stop I didn't think I was going to make it until I dropped her down into 2nd. I do think the timing may still be off a couple of degrees and will correct that tomorrow. Any help would be greatly appreciated, I am thinking of going to the dealership next but really hate to throw in the towel!
The eQjet used on the Olds 307 runs great when it's tuned properly, but there are at least a dozen different ways for it to mess up. I'll add one to the list. My 86 had a similar rich running problem. After checking all the conventional potential problems, I checked the functioning of the A.I.R. system. It turns out that the check valves in the air injection manifolds had gone bad, allowing exhaust gas to back up into the air pump. This caused the diverter valve to fail, resulting in the air pump sending air to the exhaust ports at all times. Under normal operation air is only sent to the ports when the car is cold. Once the O2 sensor warms up and the computer goes closed loop, the air diverter valve is supposed to send the air to the converter instead.

What this failure did in my case was the air going to the exhaust ports was seen by the O2 sensor as a "lean" exhaust, which then told the computer to richen the mixture. Once I replaced the check valves and diverter valve, the system worked fine.

The bottom line is that you MUST get the factory service manual and follow the troubleshooting and adjustment process EXACTLY.
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:10 PM
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I dare say that that carb has what they call a idle control solenoid on it.

Check to see if the carb "clicks" when the key is on, if so I'd warrant thats your problem. If not, it either doesn't have it OR its not working at all.

The Idle control solenoid adjusts the mixture on the fly about 3 times a second, the computer takes a reading from the O2 sensor and the computer then changes the mixture to compensate. This was done to keep cars from driving around running rich AND to feed a cold car enough fuel to run good cold while not running rich once it warms up.

CLEAR AS MUD!!!

I'm sure someone will correct me on something
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holder350
I dare say that that carb has what they call a idle control solenoid on it.

Check to see if the carb "clicks" when the key is on, if so I'd warrant thats your problem. If not, it either doesn't have it OR its not working at all.

The Idle control solenoid adjusts the mixture on the fly about 3 times a second, the computer takes a reading from the O2 sensor and the computer then changes the mixture to compensate. This was done to keep cars from driving around running rich AND to feed a cold car enough fuel to run good cold while not running rich once it warms up.

CLEAR AS MUD!!!

I'm sure someone will correct me on something
The correct name for it is Mixture Control Solenoid. If it is working you will hear it clicking with the key on engine off.
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holder350
I dare say that that carb has what they call a idle control solenoid on it.

I'm sure someone will correct me on something
As noted, it's a mixture control solenoid. The Idle Control Solenoid is used to move the throttle linkage to control the idle speed, not the mixture ratio. It turns out that the 86 307 doesn't even use an Idle Control Solenoid, it uses a vacuum operated Idle Load Compensator to do this function.

The M/C solenoid function can be monitored by using a normal dwell meter. There's a green single pin connector in the wire harness in front of the carb. Connect the dwell meter there and read the SIX cylinder scale. A properly functioning eQjet should read about 30 degrees dwell, but should be constantly fluctuating once the O2 sensor warms up. If the dwell is fixed, or if it's at high or low on the scale, there's a problem. As I noted before there are a number of possible failures that can lead to this. The factory service manual has a detailed troubleshooting chart to help you find the problem. You cannot bandaid this system, you have to follow the manual steps. Once I fixed mine, it has run great for the last two years.
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:26 AM
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Good Point, I dont know why I said idle.....lol that was automakers poor attempt to keep the idle speed constant, no matter if the AC was or or you were idleing up a hill.

Wern't they most common on stick cars?
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Old 02-22-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holder350
Good Point, I dont know why I said idle.....lol that was automakers poor attempt to keep the idle speed constant, no matter if the AC was or or you were idleing up a hill.

Wern't they most common on stick cars?
Actually, I think they were more common on A/C cars. Starting in the late 60s, the automakers responded to the early emissions regulations by leaning the mixture and turning down the idle. If you turned on the A/C, the compressor drag would cause the engine to stall. The idle solenoid was added to raise the idle speed back to spec when the A/C kicked in. As computers became more common and more powerful, the designers started to get too clever. Now the idle speed can be varied based on electrical load (brake lights on), A/C drag, power steering pump drag at high turn angles, etc. In 86 B-body cars, Buick V6 got the electric idle control solenoid and the Olds 307 got the vacuum operated idle load compensator. They did the same thing, just using different power sources.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:06 AM
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The last Qjet like this I worked on had a bad PROM in the computer. I could not get a new one, so my customer gave it to a wrecking yard. Thank God!
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by carsavvycook
The last Qjet like this I worked on had a bad PROM in the computer. I could not get a new one, so my customer gave it to a wrecking yard. Thank God!
In my opinion, the ECM is frequently blamed for problems that are caused by something else. On the other hand, the junking of these cars has made available a cheap supply of parts for people who take the time to understand how they work.
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