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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2007, 09:29 PM
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Well said B...Actually I was really referring to hotrods and street rods. When it comes to the daily driver I really think you could prepare a car to run exclusively on E-85 that would get at least as good mileage as the multi fuel cars. You would remove the compromise of multi fuel and have a very high compression, short cam, multi spark ignition, with EFI. The EFI gives the the ability to instantly tune the fuel and ignition maps to meet the road situation. I don't think a carb could do it but the EFI could. It would come with a cost however so dam the "compromise "is back. haha

Actually diesel is all around the better fuel and in the end growing algae ponds to make bio diesel from will be the way to satisfy environment and cost. Today it costs more in energy consumed for production of E-85 than it returns in energy output when compared to gas..

Anybody see the video of the Impala with the Duramax dustingoff the lamborgini?? cool

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2007, 06:30 AM
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Figure out your gear ratio mathematically. You know what RPM you were running on the highway, since it sounds like that is your concern. So determine what RPM you would like to be, and work back-wards. Otherwise you're still guessing as to what's going to happen when you stick the gear in. Just did a car here, that we wanted to do some fuel economy testing with. We knew we wanted to be able to run 70 MPH (with overdrive) at 2000 RPM, with the combination it backed into a 3.42 gear. And they said we'd never use math after we got out of school
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:23 PM
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Thanks BG Tech I previously thought it out and wrote it out mathematically(tire/rpm/mph), but camshaft rpms and stall converter rpms also become a factor. I wanted to know everyone's personal experience with blowers and what gear ratios are the best compromise. As this is my first blower motor and my old 4.88's may be too much for this motor.
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Old 06-20-2007, 12:33 PM
Technical Support Barry Grant
 
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You're thinking, but you've got keep in mind you're working on YOUR car, don't worry too much what others are doing with their's... Depending on how an engine is built will vary how it will accelerate, and what "power band" you want to run in. Depending on how you're using the car you'll need to figure out what gear is going to give you the end results you're wanting (cruise RPM, specific finish-line RPM/MPH at the track, etc.) and tune from there.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-20-2007, 01:56 PM
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I had to go back and re read your original post as we got a little side tracked. I'm assuming you have a 6-71blower or a similar Weiand blower kit.
A converter rated for say 3000 unblown attached to a blown motor with about 150 hp more and accompaning torque is going to really slip or convert as they say. Possible as high as 4500 to 5000 rpm. This is assuming a high traction launch. You can probably equate this to the difference between a 350 hp SBC and BBC 502 crate motor. The blown sbc just a little less torque. It's going to be a real haul as machine. I'm green with envy. So obviouly the converter is going to be loose. Normal driving not a problem however. Just when you step on it the motor is going to sing and you are going to accellerate like never before. As for the gears, a 4.10 or deeper will just be animalistic. As I noted earlier the 3.73 IMHO will tame it down some.

Essentially try to lug the motor a bit and use the lower speed torque and hp. The torque increase will blow your mind over the tunnel ram. You should be able to get 6-7 pounds boost right off idle unless you have the blower drive slowed way down. It will be there by 1500 for sure. It will happen so fast you probably won't even see the tach untill 5000.

At the track you will have more time to look at things and it won't feel as fast by any means.

Just a couple tips. I'd call the converter mfg and get their opinion. I think you're going to have to replace it. You're gonna need a good trans cooler and temp gage. Get the biggest and best you can with a fan.
As far as the motor goes, make sure the carbs are really right before you jump the throttle. You'll need a good accel pump squirt, a little richer jetting, and a manifold referenced power valves would be best. A backfire will scare the pants right off you. It's not going to be a little huff, it going to be a BIG BANG usually with flames.Try not to do this. I'll cry if you do.
Do not stand along side of it and hit the throttle. Stay in the car. I have blown a blower right off the funny car and 20 feet in the air doing this. Parts tend to fly everywhere fast.
I also would put a rev limiter on that simply shuts down the motor completely untill you reset it. My reasoning is that I would rather shut down than risk a backfire at high speed. The race is over for you anyway. You also will get used to running close to the rev limit just by feel. JMHO.

As the other guys are noting plan you trip for your liking. We all have our opinion but you're going to have the fun.

guess you can tell I love blower motors.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 07:29 AM
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I'm running with 4.10's and if / when I will be switching to 3.73's. (My combination is different than yours). But getting on the hiway and running that rpm gets old. Your tire height will also effect rpm's, check here for comparing combinations http://www.angelfire.com/fl/procrastination/rear.html
Also look here and go down to Optimum Shift Point http://www.hotrodders.com/kb/browselinks.php?c=57
All this info is in the knowledge base ( Thanks Jon)
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Old 06-21-2007, 08:53 AM
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My cars setup

I have a 406 Pontiac, Aluminum 72cc heads 11.5 compression 240/246 Actual duration cam with .510" lift 850 Annular Quick fuel HP style carb MSD pro-billet & 6AL Its about 450-500 horses at the crank. 3" X-pipe and spin-tec system,
RAM Powergrip HD clutch (Pain in the *** on the street)
Muncie M21 custom built....Supercase/Iron midplate/Super tail/ Roller bearing 1st gear/ Roller bearing shifter shafts/ 2.19 first gear 1.50 second gear 1.1 third gear .85 overdrive 4th gear....Built by Autogear from New York
Brute force U-joints .080" wall driveshaft
Richmond 3.91 gears auburn center cone diff. superior axles in the factory non-C-clip BOP 10 bolt rearend....

And like I Said 28.5" tires (M/TDrag radials)

I would never go with the 3.91 again....I go to the track regularly and drive it on the street alot Its a gas hog and doesnt really go that much faster with the 3.91 over the original 2.63 gears that I shrapnelled on the drag strip. Honest....let that blower motor do the pulling with its massive torque...YES you'll need a big tranny cooler and the VW Rail guys have a great one with a SPAL fan built right into the kit for like $240
I will be going to the smallest gear that will fit my Auburn center section when the time comes then I will switch out that 2.19 first gear in my Muncie for a 2.52 or deeper...
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 09:30 AM
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As much as I hate to say "powerglide" it probably would be ideal. I think my aversion to PG comes from the "discipline" I got for totally destroying the PG in my dads new 53 Chev back in HS. Nevertheless I'm in agreement on letting the massive torque do the work. These blower motors just don't have to rev to work.

Monte...Your 11:1 is ideal for E-85 haha. Matter of fact the whole motor is perfect. You could probably run a little more boost and gain another 50 hp....like you really need it on the street haha.

I would think a 2.** ratio might be a little too far but the motor can probably pull it if it doesn't "knock". Let us know how it works. The tallest I've used is a 3.50 with a 6-71 BBC 454 and 2.20 Muncie. It originally had a 4.56 and a tunnel ram. Bog city. With the 6.71 it was just an animal. It would roast the tires (31in) in anything but high gear. I put the 3.5's in and it was at least driveable with a light foot.

BTW a 12 bolt might not like this very well. Even a stock 9 in would be marginal.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 09:51 AM
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Yup

Yup the more you utilize your torque the more the strength of the rearend comes into play. especially if you make good horsepower too....I root for the underdog though....The old BOP non C-clip 10 bolt is a great rearend once all the parts are put into play. I like the fact it doesnt suck up all my horsepower turning big parts too.

I have though about E-85 but no one sells it where I live. In southwest Ohio. Never seen it at the pump anywhere.

I am turbo'ing my 74' Monte Carlo....Once I have a good handle on this turbo gig I am putting a T88 Ball bearing turbo on the 69 Bird and Swapping in my big crank to make it a 461 cubic inch motor. I will sell my turbo'ed Monte to fund the Bird turbo set-up.

There is nothing like driving a vehicle that will roll effortlessly down the highway and when you lay into it squats and runs off like a normal car coming off the line...freak out the dudes on the sportbikes....

Remember the Movie Mad Max....Rolling some serious MPH with a Roots Blower through some lonely country is too freaking cool.
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Old 06-21-2007, 09:59 AM
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Boost

Something I have learned about turbo's in particular is they like to be lugged or used in high geared cars and heavy cars spool the turbo even better.....since the turbo works off thermal pressure...The more heat you produce the more efficent the turbo....Thats why my 74' Monte Carlo with its near stock 350 should make close to 750 horsepower if the botom end would ever hold up....which it wont so I gotta limit my boost to around 10-12 the turbo I have is capable of over 30 PSI.

So The higher gear may be good for you too....I am rigging up a alcohol injection system to raise the octane and cool the incoming charge that works entirely off of boost pressure with no electronics....super simple.A turbo dragbike guy that holds several ET records told me how to do it. Just a bottle/tank with several hoses and a nozzle is all it takes. that can ward off heat and detonation for both a turbo and a blower....cools the rotors and the incoming air.....pretty freaking cool too.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 11:28 AM
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You should see what happens when you lug my Cummins down with the box on 7 or 9. haha Better have the soot resistant stuff out, and turn the lights and wiper on.
Try 35 psi boost and I'm just a newby. Some of the guys are up to 75 on the street and 125 at the truck pulls. Streetable trucks too.

One of the guys just ran mid 11's with the tow truck and pulls the trailer with his race car in it.

I just took a new 6.7 Dodge 1 ton crew for a test ride and it will burn the tires right off.

The turbo is really efficient but the polished 6-71 has real class. haha

Post some pictures of 461 it should be a great motor.
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Old 06-21-2007, 12:05 PM
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Yeah

Big roots blowers are just too cool and they sound awesome all the time....The turbo only sounds good when it spools up....the rest of the time it doesnt draw any attention.
I fell in love with turbos watching the NMRA turbo classes....even though they are turd ugly Mustangs...Really cool going down the track.
I also drove a VW GOLF GTI 2.0 Turbo that growled so cool when it boosted and then the power was unbelievable for such a small engine. I said to myself "I need this on one of my ho-hum lazy V8's and see how hyper it gets!"

I have a friend with a alcohol sprayed Grand National too with a bigger than stock turbo......HUH that 231 V6 RIPS! So I am like a wriggly little kid until I get my 350 running....Without a main girdle and forged pistons and head studs and few other things I cant blow that much boost. I will run it conservative for about 6 months and once I have to money to replace the grenade then I will start turning it up about 2psi per weekend until it blows up.


I go to the Schied Diesel Extravaganza every year in Terre Haute Indiana since I work for Valco Cincinnati...we sell our stuff their during the event. I see all kinds of crazy soot blowing diesels there. Bio-diesel is much cooler than E-85 IMO. Azure makes a kit to brew your own Bio-diesel at home that runs good in bone stock diesels as well as hot rods and is better lubricity wise for the pumps too.

I met the guys form Turbonetics there and learned alot about turbos last year. I just rebuilt my first turbo from scratch....I like to learn it full circle.

If I could build a Roots blower setup I would in a heartbeat.....but the initial cost is so high for the parts I cant afford it. I can however make/build everything in a turbo system besides the used Turbo,BOV,Wastegate....I might have a Grand in all those pieces. Most of the used Roots blowers I have found were ancient and looked like grenades ready to happen...

I like to build custom exhaust at home and I do alot with mandrels and other stuff and the turbo setup will also allow me to showcase some of my work....therefore making me a few bucks too.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 12:43 PM
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If you've see Schied, you've see the good stuff.
We have 2% bio at the pump by law here so that's good. A couple of waste oil co have locked down the waste veg oil here so it is nearly impossible to get a good supply to make bio. I already tried. Even if you have an in at a food place the waste oil co will strip your oil if you are not right there. Too much hassel for now.

I'm on the way over to Back to the 50's streetrod nationals. Nice to be only 5 miles away. There are streetrods all over the town today. Tonight will be the start of big time crusing.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:05 PM
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rod show

Thats really cool. I go to alot of Goodguys street rod shows (work related) and I get a bit tired of seeing the same cars over and over again for years without changes....city to city to city...But here and there I do shows that are farther away like pigeon forge or North Carolina, etc. and Its refreshing to see some new stuff I havent seen before.
The cruising part is really cool when its in your hometown. (You know what you can get away with)

I could most likely get as much used waste oil as I want around here right now....it hasnt caught on here yet. Heck waste oil furnaces still are just barely scratching the surface.
The glycerin (sp) that is a byproduct of Biodiesel production is easily burned off in those waste oil furnaces right along with the old motor oil.


I have been to the Scheid Diesel extravaganza about 5 years in row. I think that stuff like that Duramax powered 65' Impala that was just featured on MTV is the future of uber cool street machinery.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:41 PM
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BG Guy

I noticed after I reread a few things that the BG Tech guy was chiming in earlier....

I bought a Barry Grant 575 Blow thru Demon for my Monte....I have never used a blow thru carb before....Is there anything I need to know? Its sittin on the motor but never been fired yet. Its the single most expensive part I bought for the car. It was way over $500 closer to $600...I learned from the Turbo forums that the small CFM size that I got is very good for what I am doing. I am running the Racepump piston fuel pump 204GPH and 50+ PSI and Aeromotive boost referenced fuel press. regulator. -8 lines to and from the tank. I was specifically told not to run electric pump....dunno why. I like mech. pumps anyway....(always for that underdog)
I tried looking stuff up on my particular carb....Cant find my exact one in any book magazine or internet...I know its a blow through...I bought it new with the tag on it....Its got no choke tower, annular boosters, sealed shafts, otherwise it looks like a cross between a holley HP carb and a run of the mill Demon...
I just welded up my own "hat" to go on top of the carb...I refuse to spend money on stuff I can make. I am running a 50mm Tial blow off valve to protect stuff when I lift....Even though with a automatic I was told they arent mandatory. I was planning on 6.5psi fuel pressure at idle and the boost reference on the reg. is 1.1

Do I have all bases covered? I locked out my distributor by welding all advance components solid so no chance of a timing accident. gonna start with 20 degrees timing. The motor is a T-totally stock 2bbl 1974 350 Chevy with 88,000 miles, Funny but with all the hot rod parts sittin on it It dont look stock anymore....

The Turbo is a Garrett T4 flange 67mm Compressor...4" inlet 2 1/2" outlet....plain bearing P trim exhaust, The engine uses the stock exhaust manifolds flipped upside down. I figured they would hold more heat than a header and they have small passages which is good for the turbo.
I am really wishy washy about my oil drainback tube....not sure what I can get away with....???
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