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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubbedz
Thanks BG Tech I previously thought it out and wrote it out mathematically(tire/rpm/mph), but camshaft rpms and stall converter rpms also become a factor. I wanted to know everyone's personal experience with blowers and what gear ratios are the best compromise. As this is my first blower motor and my old 4.88's may be too much for this motor.
Here's yet another calculator!!http://www.ringpinion.com/Calc_RPM.aspx Brian

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 06-21-2007, 11:47 PM
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Monte...so you have a turbo. It least it won't be quite as violent as the 6-71. I would suspect you will have a little lag. My Cummins does but then it just growls, rolls coal and bellows out the pipe. haha

So you have a blow thru. Glad to see you got it new from a good supplier. That will eliminate a lot of problems. I really don't have any experience with blow thru other than observating of a couple guys I used to work with. Fully sealed should work just fine. We would really have fun trying to out cheap each other making things. Just make sure it is sealed up good and can stand the pressure. You should make a cheap pressure tester for the turbo to the carb. We use a home made PVC one for the diesels. The mechanical pump is for reliability. (Just ask any 24 valve 2nd gen Dodge guy about elect pumps) Belt driven?? If so make sure the drive is attached very well. I like cam driven ones..driven off the front of the cam. Not sure what this one is but it sounds good. Boost reference is excellent and necessary or you can run out of gas. then Boom even with a turbo. Otherwise I think you are on the right track. Make sure you always have more fuel pressure than boost, but not excessive.

The pop off will save the system on occassion. I think you will get some turbo bark if you quickly let off under load. this is what you hear at the truck pulls. Diesels don't have a throttle plate so the excess boost comes back out the front of the turbo...called bark as that's what it sounds like. A gasser turbo needs the throttle plate so it also needs a pop off valve to relieve pressure in the intake tubes.

Ignition wise. I'm not so sure about the locked out advance unless you controll it electronically. You will really want to run some retard on the top end I think. All of the blower motors I've ever done I set the ignition switch to spin the motor over with no fire then hit the ign switch. This makes sure the motor is free and turning before there is fire. No back fires starting and busted starters. It also allows you run excessive initial timing. For example our alcohol FC ran as much as 50* locked out mag.. Always started. The top fuel cars ran as much as 70*, same thing. I guess you could run 30 -34 without a problem.

With your motor I'd go a little easy on the boost to start. If it should cave in a piston, the next revolution the charge will go off in the pan and probably take every gasket in the motor with it. Do carry a fire extinguisher just in case.

You're manifolds will be perfect. Good thought.

Sounds like a fun project.

What are we doing talking blower motors on a rear end thread.?? They are hard on rear ends. There that will make it ligitimate. haha
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2007, 10:00 AM
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Haha....

Yeah blower motors on the rearend thread....Its all connected....I run a 3.08 geared ten bolt in that Monte. And a Turbo 350 Tranny.
The Mechanical fuel pump bolts on in the stock location but doesnt look anything like a regular fuel pump...Piston type...no diaphrams....-8 an fittings in & Out www.racepumps.com Its for circle track/sprint cars mainly It only takes 25lbs. of pushrod force to operate also.
There should be very little lag if any....I am running a p-trim clipped wheel with .68 A/R exhaust housing....It will spool right off idle and be done by 4,500/5,000 RPM MAX. Its actually a tad bit small on the exhaust side but I want mid-range power and no lag so even if I screwed up and got it a little too small and it signs off by 4,000 RPM oh well....The 3.08 gear will still be pushing the car about 120MPH in high gear... Hence my totally stock cam and the timing I am told should be locked like a motorcycle is....I can add a retard later if I desire with a MSD HEI replacement module. I have the ignition seperated from the starter on two of my cars now for a myriad of reasons...So I understand your thoughts. I am being conservative to not hurt the stock motor....20 degrees will still make it nasty....I will turn it up a little later on with the boost.....Blow thru motors have to worry about detonation though more so than other setups....so conservative timing is important.

I work for Valco Cincinnati Consumer Products www.valco-cp.com and we make silicone sealants/threadlockers/Magic Mix metal polish/ and alot of other products....I got a pretty good handle on sealing up that intake system...I made my blow thru hat out of .070" wall sheetmetal fully welded and I will be using HD silicone Semi truck "radiator hose" straights from my local buddy at the industrial supply. I will use silicone to seal the hat to the carb and under the wing nut on top.

I am pretty dang good at being cheap...Sometimes too much so....Last night I was sanding my Z28 wheels down to the bare aluminum and polishing them because I wont spend the money to buy new wheels (clearcoat looked bad and corroding) I used 80 grit then 400 wet then 1000 wet and buffing....Tons of labor but nobody else has polished 95' Z28 wheels around here....I got more time than money. I wish I had some people dead set towards helping me when I chose my gears for my car...Now I gotta spend money again (hate that)
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2007, 03:08 PM
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WOW !!!!! What alot of information ! From ring and pinion, to fuel to blowers then turbos, Whew !! After I digest all the info I guess my best bet would be 3.73 gears, with a fan cooled transmission cooler (because of slippage), and turn up the boost on my blower to let the torque do the work. Thanks guys for all the info, especially for the calculators.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2007, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montebrian
I noticed after I reread a few things that the BG Tech guy was chiming in earlier....

I bought a Barry Grant 575 Blow thru Demon for my Monte....I have never used a blow thru carb before....Is there anything I need to know? Its sittin on the motor but never been fired yet. Its the single most expensive part I bought for the car. It was way over $500 closer to $600...I learned from the Turbo forums that the small CFM size that I got is very good for what I am doing. I am running the Racepump piston fuel pump 204GPH and 50+ PSI and Aeromotive boost referenced fuel press. regulator. -8 lines to and from the tank. I was specifically told not to run electric pump....dunno why. I like mech. pumps anyway....(always for that underdog)
I tried looking stuff up on my particular carb....Cant find my exact one in any book magazine or internet...I know its a blow through...I bought it new with the tag on it....Its got no choke tower, annular boosters, sealed shafts, otherwise it looks like a cross between a holley HP carb and a run of the mill Demon...
I just welded up my own "hat" to go on top of the carb...I refuse to spend money on stuff I can make. I am running a 50mm Tial blow off valve to protect stuff when I lift....Even though with a automatic I was told they arent mandatory. I was planning on 6.5psi fuel pressure at idle and the boost reference on the reg. is 1.1

Do I have all bases covered? I locked out my distributor by welding all advance components solid so no chance of a timing accident. gonna start with 20 degrees timing. The motor is a T-totally stock 2bbl 1974 350 Chevy with 88,000 miles, Funny but with all the hot rod parts sittin on it It dont look stock anymore....

The Turbo is a Garrett T4 flange 67mm Compressor...4" inlet 2 1/2" outlet....plain bearing P trim exhaust, The engine uses the stock exhaust manifolds flipped upside down. I figured they would hold more heat than a header and they have small passages which is good for the turbo.
I am really wishy washy about my oil drainback tube....not sure what I can get away with....???
You should be good to go with that 575. It's basically a 650 Mighty Demon with Annular style boosters.

Be VERY CAREFUL with making your own hat. The size and shape of the bonnet will make a HUGE difference in how the carburetor performs. You'll want to keep the hat as tall as possible.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2007, 04:03 PM
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"hat"

I done good then....Its 5 1/8" around and as tall as I have hood clearance for... The 2 1/2" inlet tube is entering into the side of it near the top. Looks like a big piece of pipe I rolled it and welded it myself. then capped it with another piece of flat sheetmetal. I wasnt sure if I should angle in the air like the shape of a turbo housing or just go straight into the side... So I have not welded that part together yet. There is a fair amount of volume above the carb. especially in comparison to other hats I have seen.


Thanks for the reply!

Last edited by Montebrian; 06-22-2007 at 04:04 PM. Reason: omission
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2007, 10:24 PM
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Monte...and Tub...it sounds like you are good to go.

I just got back from the Back to the 50's streetrod nationals. I'm only 5 miles away. For as long as it took to drive there and find a place to park I think I could have walked.

There must have been 50 to 100 blown cars that I saw. Only saw 1 turbo. Most of them are running much milder cams now as they just don't need the power. Very reliable. Most of them just purr.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 06-24-2007, 12:16 PM
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Yes!

Thats one of the reasons I like turbo's so much is that out of 100 old cars at a show maybe 1 has a turbo. Newer Mustangs and stuff are getting common to see turbo setups...But a 74' Monte is highly unlikely to ever see another.

And yes the Turbo cams are unbelievably mild....112-114 and up lobe centerlines short durations and low lift for street and high lift for racing.

Smooth idles and easy driving. Only a monster when you want one....

Alot of guys like turbo's because they are easy on motors...You can turbo a 150,000 mile motor and it will be ok....Turbo's come on soft and gradual for the most part and lift off of boost pretty easily too. Well worn motors haev held up to uncanny amounts of boost that they never should have been able to take but keep on trucking...I will be testing that theory to the max...
As long as fuel and timing are right I am told the engines will be happy.

My goal really is to blow a bunch of young folks minds and blow some mustangs and imports into the weeds.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2007, 09:26 AM
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gear selection

i have a 73 nova with turbo 350 trans and 10 bolt 8.5 rearend i was wanting to put 3.73 gear in it. i think the gear in it now is either 2.73 or 3.08 i drive this car on the road alot but take it on the track a few times a year is my plan.26 inch tire. not sure of cam because motor was already in it when i bought the car.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2007, 10:12 AM
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rules of thumbs

I have always put it like this,

If you want maximum acceleration and still want to drive it on the street regularly 3.55 through 3.91 gears are pretty decent with a 26-31" tire.

If you want to cruise it on the highway, travel some between towns and live in a rural setting, 2.73 through 3.42 gears are decent with 26-31" tire.

If you run a tire no taller than 25" and drive highways alot then 2.43-2.73 is fine....

I am quite happy with my 3.08 in my Monte so I dont sweat highway and distance cruising....But the 3.91 in my Firebird has been hideous for me for anything besides the drag strip....where it functions quite well. I have owned a truck with 31" tires and 4.56 gears.....I hated it bad. Couldnt get anywhere quick and fuel mileage was baaaaaaaaaaaaad. I had a Jeep with 4.88 gears and tall 4by4 tires at least 33" and it wasnt as bad as the truck...but it was smaller and lighter and had a revvy 283" Chevy motor.
My Firebird had a 2.63 gear in it from the factory and actually with the hot motor it ran pretty good. and was a hoot on the highway....but thats with Pontiac torque.
My 75' LeMans had a 2.73 gear and it was heavy with a rather small motor.....made it disappointing. It would run all day on the highway and with good mileage but lacked acceleration down low. I put in a bigger motor and a 3,000 stall convertor and it really woke it up. Then the gear was liveable.
My 79' Z-28 was a 3.42 gear....did most everything well...decent all around gear...
My 95' Z-28 has a 3.73/4.10 gear....I have not determined it for sure yet....with the automatic tranny....Great performance but my mileage sucks and so does the cruise RPM on the highway.

I had a 95' Jeep Cherokee Sport that had around a 3.55 gear in it and it had overdrive too..Fabulous gearing for its combination!

I have owned tons of different rear wheel drive vehicles and the one that always felt the most usefull all had middle 3 to high 2 series gears....unless its built for a purpose of tall tires or drag racing there is not much sense in deep 3 or 4 series gears...Lowriders with 13" Daytons on the other hand benifit from mid 2 series gears to keep their driveability....Take a serious deep look at what you really want to do with your vehicle then choose what you want. Most of my experiences have left me wanting just a little bit less gear than what I picked...When I had a choice....when I bought a car and it was from the 70's they always seemed a little slow due to the gear....But it always takes less than you expect the make the difference you want.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2007, 10:49 AM
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Monte, that's a pretty good plan. I like to plan on about 2000 rpm at 60mph maybe a little less depending on the cam and converter. If you have 300 hp and 325 ft lbs at 2500 in a light weight car it's a great combination. My Willys only weighs 2600 so a 3.5 gear with 31 in tires seems ok We'll see. I rode in a 502 Camaro with 3.73 and it was just an animal. It got maybe 9-10 mpg on racing gas. It really got with the program however. It really wasn't a good cruiser, much more suited to drag racing. I also rode in a Vega with a 350 turbo and about 350 hp mild street motor with 3.0 gears. It was nearly purrrrfetly quiet and would just wrench your gut out,18 mpg. good cruiser. ( don't corner hard however)haha
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