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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyringo
perhaps you did not get the full gist of his statement. He said that with their oil they were able to double the life of their flat tappet cams from 600 miles and wearing out(without his products), to 1200 miles...When you get time to check the links they used his break in oil on 3 sets of cams then used 3 different oils after the break in period and showed what happened after breakin....The pictures speak for themselves with the amount of wear using the Chevy SPI oil... The lifters look fubar~! That was with only 4 hrs, run time at 4,500rpm~! Then they did it with Synthetic oil and examined the lifters, then with their oil..

Flat tappet Hyd. cams have been used since at least the 60's through the late 80's. And prior to this they drove the cars a zillion miles...Now, according to his site, they are only going to last a short time, even doing oil filter changes every 100 miles, then pulling and changing the oil every 500 miles?
with a life expectancy of only a couple thousand miles? Is this what we have come to? Or am I missing something...I sat and read his site for several hours and finally came to the conclusion a roller was the way to go...Maybe I am missing something...
Pal, you need to check yourself. This is talking about racing engines as has been pointed out by another astute reader. There have been tons of articles written about this subject. You need the ZDDP at break-in, primarily. It has also been stated that the old ZDDP standards were overkill and today's standards are enough for most flat tappet cams unless they are on the extremely radical side with un-godly spring pressures. You can run full synthetics that have the old levels of ZDDP. You can run Brad Penn dino oil if you want. You can also run diesel engine oils that still have enough ZDDP. My kid's '96 Grand Am with a Quad Four just gave up the ghost at 190K miles after losing the rear main seal. How many other people do you know who are almost at 200K miles running their flat tappet cams with today's oils? Stop and think about what you're reading instead of hatching cockamamie conspiracy theories. JMHO.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyringo
After doing my research, I see you had the wiped lobe syndrome on a 454 build...Did you ever go with the roller cam in that motor, or did you do another Hyd. flat tappet cam after your heart was broken?
Nope. I must be a bugger for punishment.
I replaced that failed bump-stick with an even lumpier flat-tappet one.

It (knock on wood) seems to be hanging in there this time.
Time will tell, as the truck hasn't turned a wheel yet ... and it's been 4 years.

Money and ambition ... still looking for a pail full of each.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Axis_of_Evil
It's a new flat tappet motor from Smeding Performance, SBC 383 mild performance. I haven't changed the oil yet. The car is a work in progress and will be a daily driver.

I'll probably change the oil every 4000 to 5000.
Thanks for the fast reply...decisions, decisions...My old motor has so many loose rocker arms, I can't wait to see the cam....
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by 66GMC
Nope. I must be a bugger for punishment.
I replaced that failed bump-stick with an even lumpier flat-tappet one.

It (knock on wood) seems to be hanging in there this time.
Time will tell, as the truck hasn't turned a wheel yet ... and it's been 4 years.

Money and ambition ... still looking for a pail full of each.
I am sorry that this happened to you...I bumped into that post by shear accident a couple hours ago and that is my biggest fear...The only reason why I brought it up, is because you were contemplating a Roller for the motor, as I am now....
Bugger? AAAA? sounds Canadian
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:15 PM
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I used a Howards retrofit roller cam in my 406 and am happy with it, as far as the timing cover I just bought one from summit with a wear plate I believe it is called in it and used a cam button in conjunction with that, the pushrods are lunati, I can possible check my summit order history and get the lengths and pn's for you.
Shane
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
Pal, you need to check yourself. This is talking about racing engines as has been pointed out by another astute reader. There have been tons of articles written about this subject. You need the ZDDP at break-in, primarily. It has also been stated that the old ZDDP standards were overkill and today's standards are enough for most flat tappet cams unless they are on the extremely radical side with un-godly spring pressures. You can run full synthetics that have the old levels of ZDDP. You can run Brad Penn dino oil if you want. You can also run diesel engine oils that still have enough ZDDP. My kid's '96 Grand Am with a Quad Four just gave up the ghost at 190K miles after losing the rear main seal. How many other people do you know who are almost at 200K miles running their flat tappet cams with today's oils? Stop and think about what you're reading instead of hatching cockamamie conspiracy theories. JMHO.

Sir: I beg to differ:
I have been reading this site for awhile as well as others..I sum this up with Inspector1's reply from another person asking on which way to go...Your saying that his logic is wrong? Just wondering and not trying to start an argument, but the logic I see in Inspector1's comments are reasonable....Also, since I was already corrected about Joe Gibbs turning 9,000 rpm's with his engines, that explained it to me...I was corrected...

Furthermore, my current motor has 170,00+ miles on it and it is toast..It is my opinion that when Cash for Clunkers failed to get all the older cars off the road 2 yrs ago, and GM failed, as well...It could be that the next step was the oil,....
1,000,000,000,000 ohms of resistance is the reason why, our country is in the trouble it is in...When bankers, Car manufacturers and whoever else wants Tax payer dollars, because they could not balance their check book from the wild parties they throw, that is a conspiracy, because you and me would have been thrown in jail for fraud... I used that amount of ohms, because people keep allowing the status quo to do the same things over and over again....To much resistance to think outside the box~!


From Inspector1 on this site;

http://www.clubhotrod.com/chevy-smal...uggestion.html

"OK, I'll comment more. DO NOT USE A FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT, REPEAT, DO NOT USE A FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT.
If you were aware of the number of flat tappet cams I see roached, you wouldn't even consider one. It's not just the fact that the cam and lifters are ruined and you have to buy them again, it's the fact that the motor has to be removed, completely torn down and all cracks, crevises and oil galleys must be cleaned just like they were when you first put the motor together. So, there's the cost of new cam and lifters, all new gaskets, all the cleaning, re-assembly and the possibility that it will happen all over again. I know there are those of you who have successfully used a flat tappet camshaft, or know someone who has, but everything must be absolutely perfect to prevent wiping a lobe. It's just not worth the gamble when a roller hydraulic camshaft and roller lifters aren't that much more money. I'm going to suggest a Howard's CL110235-12 retrofit cam for you with an intake closing point that will match up with your 8.99:1 static compression ratio. You don't want to use any more cam than this with your low SCR. If you want to use more cam, then change the pistons to 12cc units and use a Howards CL110245. Howards are a little less money than some of the other manufacturers, but still have the reputation of being an excellent product and have been for many years. DO NOT USE A FLAT TAPPET CAMSHAFT."

Last edited by Dannyringo; 04-10-2012 at 07:45 PM.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet4x4s
I used a Howards retrofit roller cam in my 406 and am happy with it, as far as the timing cover I just bought one from summit with a wear plate I believe it is called in it and used a cam button in conjunction with that, the pushrods are lunati, I can possible check my summit order history and get the lengths and pn's for you.
Shane
Yes, if you could find out the lengths of the pushrods/part #'s that would be great...I already contacted Summit and they replied with an optional cam cover and Inspector1 replied to another post with one of Cloyes gear covers that can adjust the cam spacer bearing from outside the cover...

\Thanks again...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-10-2012, 08:53 PM
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My order history with Summit is only showing up back to December 2010 . If my memory serves me correctly they were 7.25", which with Google I am coming up with 7.25'' - 7.3''.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevrolet4x4s
My order history with Summit is only showing up back to December 2010 . If my memory serves me correctly they were 7.25", which with Google I am coming up with 7.25'' - 7.3''.

I was looking last nite at comps website and I wrote a tech question about their 2 different lengths of pushrods they sell for the same cam...1=7.266, 2=7.300....I wondered if one was for the 1.6 rocker and the other for 1.5?...
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannyringo
I was looking last nite at comps website and I wrote a tech question about their 2 different lengths of pushrods they sell for the same cam...1=7.266, 2=7.300....I wondered if one was for the 1.6 rocker and the other for 1.5?...
I would bet the 7.266" length is for OEM rollers and 7.300" is for after market retro fit rollers.

The I don't think moving to a 1.6 rocker would necessitate a pushrod length change, but I could very well be wrong.
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:50 PM
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sound logic to me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Surfer
I would bet the 7.266" length is for OEM rollers and 7.300" is for after market retro fit rollers.

The I don't think moving to a 1.6 rocker would necessitate a pushrod length change, but I could very well be wrong.
That could explain the price difference...I don't remember the order, but one cost $36.00 and the other cost $99.00 ....Thanks...waiting for the outcome from Comp...
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Silver Surfer
Did you see this thread?
Questions on motor oil

And this link was posted showing Mobile 1 15w-50 was intended for flat tappet?
Questions on motor oil

Not sure how well a SBC will digest 15w-50 oil though. You do have other options for flat tappet specific oil though.
Thanks for the links and yes, I saw them...But both were done in May of 2011...On Joe Gibbs Driven Oil website today, stated that at the end of 2011, they again reduced the oil anti-wear additives in all oils and to be aware of the fact that just adding ZDDP to common oils will adversely affect the oil and could cause engine failure...Worst case... I was corrected on mileage with oil changes and the understanding that Joe Gibbs motors are turning +9000rpm's and that is the reason why they are changing oil so often..

I think I'm sold on using the Retro Roller cam...I would prefer to get a newer vortec L-31 block, but for the van it is going into, there would be too much difference with the oil pan, dipstick location, as well as other hard parts placement...I need to KISS this project! (KEEP IT SIMPLE FOR STUPID: ME)

Moreover, there is no guarantee on oil and the companies continued changing of oil properties to less than optimal anti-wear additives...

With a roller cam, I eliminate 2 problems...
1) cam break in (NO WIPED LOBES)
2) finding cheap oil for a daily driver w/o buying additives, or mail order~!
I can use almost any oil off the shelfs and have no worries..

AND the Benefits of freeing up HP by the rollers themselves and the added benefits of a cam change without buying new lifters and again breaking in a cam...

Lastly:"if it ain't broke, don't fix it~!" Well, why would all those companies that build cars for a living, abandon the Hyd. Flat Tappet Cam for the Hyd. Roller Cam....What part of this problem is everyone resistance for changing over to the new design?
Like I said the other day, it is all about 1,000,000,000 ohms of resistance...
People don't like change, so they resist trends in all facets of life...

Last edited by Dannyringo; 04-11-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:46 PM
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Again, I think you are over analyzing it. Why would cam companies still be selling flat tappet cams if they were all doomed to fail. Do your proper break in, change your oil regularly and use the right oil.
Now, you want more confusion? Better figure out your proper pushrod length for proper performance. Its not one lenght for roller rockers and one for standard. If you are using roller rockers better make sure you have the correct length pushrods. So search that on this site and then you will see your head spin!!
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2012, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Richiehd
Again, I think you are over analyzing it. Why would cam companies still be selling flat tappet cams if they were all doomed to fail. Do your proper break in, change your oil regularly and use the right oil.
Now, you want more confusion? Better figure out your proper pushrod length for proper performance. Its not one lenght for roller rockers and one for standard. If you are using roller rockers better make sure you have the correct length pushrods. So search that on this site and then you will see your head spin!!

Why would Comp Cams advertise their Retro Rollers FIRST when you look up SBC cams on their site?
Also, talked to COMP CAMS and found out that the reason why they have 2 different pushrods is that one is HARDENED, while the OTHER IS NOT for the cam that I am looking at~!
I thought it might have been for 1.5 and the other for 1.6 rockers, not what you just claimed...that was someone else speculating...

Anyways, I already made up my mind to go retro roller anyways and I will have a ton of advantages to going this method....
And the number one reason for going this route is I DO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT WIPING A LOBE, then trying to deal with a manufacturer....NUFF SAID~!

Last edited by Dannyringo; 04-11-2012 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:58 PM
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Just do a google search on "wiped cam lobe" or "I wiped my cam lobe"
Then look at the dates, 2010, 2011 as well as 2012....

Search
About 37,300 results (0.27 seconds

YA, RIGHT~! no concern and I am over analyzing it? 37,300 hits in under 1/2 second~!
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