Roller Lifters - standard cam - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 07:10 AM
ckucia's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cleveland
Age: 47
Posts: 563
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Roller Lifters - standard cam

I did some research on this on the web, and came up with conflicting opinions.

Lets say I have an oddball engine with an OEM cam and regular hydraulic lifters.

Just for example, lets say I found a set of OEM or aftermarket roller hydraulic lifters that will fit the bores (perhaps with some slight modification) and work with the lifter oiling system.

Can I use these roller lifters on a non-roller cam? Can I upgrade to an aftermarket non-roller cam and use the roller lifters?

If this could be done, can the roller lifters on a non-roller cam handle stiffer valvesprings easier than standard hydraulic lifters without premature wear?

If not, would there be any advantage/disadvantage to running roller lifters on a non-roller cam (not counting the expense)?

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 07:16 AM
Infomaniac's Avatar
Twin Turbo Drag Boat
 

Last journal entry: Random In Progress Shots
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Locust Grove, OK
Age: 52
Posts: 372
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You cannot run rollers on non roller cams.

The lobes are not the same.

You can physically put them on but it will not run very well at all.

There is a reason for the differences. Just buy yourself a roller cam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 07:27 AM
ckucia's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cleveland
Age: 47
Posts: 563
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Unfortunately, roller cams not available, other than having one custom made.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 07:29 AM
bigbadbowtie's Avatar
Bottle Fed
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Huntsville Alabama
Age: 40
Posts: 468
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
few reasons whey I know you cant,

Roller cams (in most cases are billet) so they can take the higher spring pressures. Roller setup on a cast cam would eat up in short order.

Flat tappet cams have a taper to each lobe so that the lifter spins in the bore.This is also what keeps the cam from walking.

Roller cams do not, they use a button to keep them from walking.

Last edited by bigbadbowtie; 01-26-2006 at 12:31 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:02 AM
ckucia's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cleveland
Age: 47
Posts: 563
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The differing materials was the biggest issue that I found.

It seems a little counter-intuitive. Sure, the rollers are harder than the cam, but they're rolling. Seems like there ought to be a lot less friction and wear on rolling surfaces, even with two different hardness on the materials, than a sliding surface of identical materials.

Is it still a problem with stock spring pressures? I'm primarily interested in longevity, with the ability to boost the spring pressure just being a bonus, if it were even possible.

A custom made cast cam is pretty affordable, but a custom made roller cam is out of budget. I'm not looking for an aggressive grind or ridiculous spring pressures - more interested in eliminating a source of friction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:48 AM
StevenC's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Riverside Ca
Posts: 192
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
there is a taper in the lobes which will not work good with the rollers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:49 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WA.
Age: 58
Posts: 507
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
A "custom" roller shouldn't cost anymore then a shelf roller.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 08:59 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: nashville tn.
Posts: 17
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
rollers

Ckucia first I will say it won't work. Second is why, anything you gain with roller friction you loose if you add stiffer springs more or less. The reason for stiffer springs and roller cams are mainly higher lift,longer duration,and higher rpm without float. The ramps for the lifter open and close on a roller are ground completely different on a roller because of the roller. Rollers themselves don't make power thy only allow for better cam grinds. Plus if you look at the length on the lifters the roller is likely taller and would cause geometry problems.If you try it, go ahead and get a second job because if you can't afford a custom roller that new engine will set you back just a little more than the cam. If you can come up with an old roller that will fit you block it can be reground comp. has done a few for me it saves a $100.00 to $150.00.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 09:07 AM
Infomaniac's Avatar
Twin Turbo Drag Boat
 

Last journal entry: Random In Progress Shots
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Locust Grove, OK
Age: 52
Posts: 372
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckucia
The differing materials was the biggest issue that I found.

It seems a little counter-intuitive. Sure, the rollers are harder than the cam, but they're rolling. Seems like there ought to be a lot less friction and wear on rolling surfaces, even with two different hardness on the materials, than a sliding surface of identical materials.

Is it still a problem with stock spring pressures? I'm primarily interested in longevity, with the ability to boost the spring pressure just being a bonus, if it were even possible.

A custom made cast cam is pretty affordable, but a custom made roller cam is out of budget. I'm not looking for an aggressive grind or ridiculous spring pressures - more interested in eliminating a source of friction.

The shape of the lobes are no where near the same dude. It's not a matter of material etc.

It's the difference between a flat surface or a round surface riding on the lobe. Completely different shapes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 09:34 AM
ckucia's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cleveland
Age: 47
Posts: 563
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
From what I've read on the web, there is a significant material difference between roller and non roller cams.

Roller cams are manufactured from steel billet, non-roller from cast iron.

For a non-standard engine, there are not billet "blanks" for the cam grinder to use to make a roller cam, so roller cams aren't offered.

I don't think lobe profile is all that much of a concern, as a custom ground cast iron cam can be had for a fairly reasonable price - just about every engine out there has cast iron cam "blanks" available.

I guess my question, more specifically, was if the roller cams are billet because of the billet roller, or are they billet because the roller allows much higher spring pressures and aggressive profile, which requires a harder material to prevent cam lobe wear.

I'm not particularly interested in higher pressure or aggresive profile. I'm not opposed to having a custom-ground cam made that would match the stock flat-tappet profile to a roller lifter. I'm trying to build something bulletproof, not necessarily push the performance to the edge.

Sure, the ideal solution would be a custom-ground steel billet roller cam. The prices I've seen start at around $2000 and go up from there - and this is for something that may require some expirimentation to get right.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 10:10 AM
engineczar's Avatar
Hotrodders.com Moderator
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: In Flowbench nirvana
Age: 52
Posts: 1,666
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 6
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
The big question is what type, year, and size engine are you building? You keep referring to a non-standard engine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 10:11 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cali
Posts: 994
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts


Here's an article comparing cams...

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95258/

What kind of engine are you working with? I can't imagine that it costs $2000 for a custom ground cam.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 10:22 AM
ckucia's Avatar
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: cleveland
Age: 47
Posts: 563
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Engine I'm considering is a Cadillac 425 - same basic block as the 472/500 but lighter.

I found another vendor this morning who can produce custom billet roller cams - they require boring out the cam bearing journals. These are just over $1k and its a custom grind so I could tailor it to my specs. That's a little more affordable - still a lot more than a custom cast cam - but still pricey. I might be able to live with that.

The reason I didn't mention the engine is that I was really trying to find out if the roller lifters on the cast cam were doable with close-to-stock specs. I know most people are going to want to go with a more aggressive lift and/or stronger springs, but I'm sure there are some people who would like the benefits of roller lifters w/o getting too agressive. Just trying to find out if this was doable for all the odd-ball engines out there. In my case, it looks like there is a solution, albeit an expensive one, but that isn't always going to be the case for every engine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 10:34 AM
Infomaniac's Avatar
Twin Turbo Drag Boat
 

Last journal entry: Random In Progress Shots
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Locust Grove, OK
Age: 52
Posts: 372
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Most hydraulic roller cams are cast iron.

Solid roller cams are steel billit.

And it's mainly due to spring pressures and cam deflection.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2006, 11:02 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 29
Posts: 9,216
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 17
Thanked 339 Times in 319 Posts
You can run roller lifters on a hydraulic cam, I've done it, however you loose duration when you do it, and besides that, there's really no point in doing it, but whatever floats your boat. This is as old as the short VS long rod argument.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
roller cam in an non roller block..is it possible? bigshow2 Engine 5 09-18-2005 07:31 PM
retrofit roller lifters??????? jesse01 Engine 9 08-06-2005 06:45 AM
Can i have my solid roller cam re-ground? shockers69 Engine 1 04-19-2004 07:41 PM
Anything special to put roller cam in 400 block? sb72elcamino350 Engine 1 04-09-2004 11:12 PM
chevy Roller lifters? 87442lover Engine 19 02-21-2004 02:08 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.