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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2013, 08:34 PM
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Crane gold

This is what I'm spinning 6900. Don't mean to, got the light set on 6600 and the rev limiter on 6900 sometimes I get on the Msd pop pop before I can pull a gear, old fukr, shift stupid. They are 1.6 but its what my cam is specified for. I've thought about backing down to 1.5's because the cam is SO ROWDY, but thats what you get when you run a drag cam on the street. Runs super on the big end, but on the street you have to downshift alot to keep it in the power band. They haven't broke yet with over 5000 miles. ;http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-11755-16

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Old 11-27-2013, 08:40 PM
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roller rockers

had good luck with crane gold rockers.for added reliability i used arp rocker studs
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2013, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jokerZ71 View Post
F'Bird,do you have the part# for the GM retainers?I heard they have em,but,haven't found any.
Its all in the new 2014 GMPP catalog (download)
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2013, 11:28 PM
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Thanks for the personal experiences gents, sets my mind at ease.

Man those GMPP parts are expensive here in Canada, ordered a replacement intake and exhaust valve today from my local GM dealer. Hold your hats...one of each of the hollow intake and sodium filled exhaust valve totalled $170 before taxes.

I only paid $250 for both heads!

Good thing only one of each needed needed replacing, I could get titanium valves at those prices.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2013, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
It makes little sense to use 1.6 rockers on a street motor small block Chevy. Now, if you're talking race motor, great, knock yourself out, use 1.8 rockers if you can make them work. But here on this forum, we're dealing with fellows who are looking for a little more grunt from their street motor, not looking for every last horsepower and making the valvetrain work harder than it has to. We have enough trouble with fragging cams and lifters as it is, without adding fuel to the fire.

A change from 1.5 to 1.6 adds 16% more effort to the cam lobe and the lifter crown for a return of ~10-15 horsepower in most cases. What difference does it make if the motor is making 400 hp or 410 hp? The driver ain't gonna feel it in the seat of his pants anyway.

You do what you feel you have to do and I'll continue advising against higher ratio rockers on street motors, favoring long life rather than extracting every last horsepower from a motor.
all true but I think the engine he'll be using is a roller cam, if so. most of that goes out the window.. I have 80000 miles on a set of comp cams stainless steel full roller promagnum rockers.. they were pricey back in 1995 when I bought them and the newer ones are no different.. .
my vortec crate 350 has 1.6 rockers and ramjet cam.. haven't heard of many with the ramjet crate having rocker failures.. but the cam isn't all that wild either.. the engine with 80k on it.. is a solid flat tappet comp cam. would have to find the cam card.. but it's just a little wilder than comps 292hyd with a lot more lift than the .501 the 292 has
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck View Post
Thanks for the personal experiences gents, sets my mind at ease.

Man those GMPP parts are expensive here in Canada, ordered a replacement intake and exhaust valve today from my local GM dealer. Hold your hats...one of each of the hollow intake and sodium filled exhaust valve totalled $170 before taxes.

I only paid $250 for both heads!

Good thing only one of each needed needed replacing, I could get titanium valves at those prices.
Just make a call and order your stuff from the USA.
Everything in Canada is overpriced.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck View Post
Thanks for the personal experiences gents, sets my mind at ease.

Man those GMPP parts are expensive here in Canada, ordered a replacement intake and exhaust valve today from my local GM dealer. Hold your hats...one of each of the hollow intake and sodium filled exhaust valve totalled $170 before taxes.

I only paid $250 for both heads!

Good thing only one of each needed needed replacing, I could get titanium valves at those prices.
are ou sure that's not one set of each..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2013, 03:02 PM
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406 SBC, 260/266 @ .050" Crower solid flat tappet cam .570/.595" lift using 1.6 ratio/3/8" stud Wolverine Blue Racer (Crane) extruded aluminum full roller rockers. Chrome moly pushrods, Crane #99893 1.460" diameter double spring, 125 lbs seat load, 340 lbs over the nose load.

25,000+ street miles, strip 8-10 times a summer, run to 7400-7600 rpm regularly at the drags, ....no problems with the rockers in 10 years time.
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Old 11-28-2013, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ericnova72 View Post
406 SBC, 260/266 @ .050" Crower solid flat tappet cam .570/.595" lift using 1.6 ratio/3/8" stud Wolverine Blue Racer (Crane) extruded aluminum full roller rockers. Chrome moly pushrods, Crane #99893 1.460" diameter double spring, 125 lbs seat load, 340 lbs over the nose load.

25,000+ street miles, strip 8-10 times a summer, run to 7400-7600 rpm regularly at the drags, ....no problems with the rockers in 10 years time.
Now, there's a testimonial!!!!!!!!!!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2013, 03:39 PM
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I'd also add that friends have used Scorpion and Harland Sharps for street/strip use for 4-5 years in SBC's with no problems also. Solid lifter cams in the .550"+ lift range, and .625" lift Herbert solid roller in one case with the Scorpions.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2013, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Now, there's a testimonial!!!!!!!!!!
I'll say!

I wonder if a lot of the nightmare roller rocker destructions aren't a result of piston/valve contact after floating way over redline.

One issue that seems to be only addressed by one rocker design is spring cooling (T&D Machine Products). With a stud girdle, sheet metal deflector or factory style valve cover over the valve train this is addressed. Probably the only reason I would run a girdle on the street is to keep the oil down especially with those fashionable tall valve covers.

I know in a high rpm race car its important and a street car not so much, how many of you use such a device on your street car?

Just curious.
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Old 11-29-2013, 01:05 PM
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I have two small block chevy's and I have used a set of crane energizer 1.5 full roller rocker arms for over ten years now with no issues and it has seen 7 grand on a few occasions and no issues. The other one I am using a set of summit brand full roller rocker arms and I have used them for over 5 years now and they still look like new on both engines even though they don't see a lot of driving time these days because of other reasons but they have worked great for me. The ones to stay away from are the really cheap ones being sold on ebay that are out of spec and made of not properly heat treated materials. That is what I read on them. If you get from a good name brand then you should be good to go like Harland scorpion com cams etc.
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Old 11-30-2013, 09:27 AM
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Buddy had a 1996 LT4 Corvette. The LT4 is/was the only GEN 1/2/3/4/5 SBC engine to ever use full roller rockers from the factory. They did have a recall on them early on, but he beat the snot out of that car. Stock rev limit was 6412 rpm and he had a cam added and rev limit raised to 6800rpm. He had over 220,000kms on that car before he got rid of it. The LT4 rockers were supplied by Crane, and Crane Gold roller rockers are pretty much teh same asteh original LT4 rockers.

The reason GM used the full roller rockers instead of teh ball and stud was because of galling between the rocker and ball seat that occurs over 6000rpm. The LT4 also used the LT4 springs which use an ovate(oval) wire. The Beehive springs use ovate wire as well.

peace
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2013, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 4 Jaw Chuck View Post
Lots of reasons why I want to use 1.6 ratio rockers, primarily I am duplicating the ZZ430 crate motor from GMPP which used the LT4 cam and 1.6 rockers. I already have the proper AL 604 heads which I lucked out on finding cheap.

The GMPP "Hot cam" P/N 846 which was a part of this package has a 0.525" lift with the 1.6 rockers which is max for the stock springs, looked hard for an aftermarket cam that is similar but everything is either way higher or lower lift or too little duration or too much.

I've thought about stepping up to the next level cam P/N 847 but then I need new springs, this is what is used in the ZZ465 crate engine and honestly the car won't need more power for the application.

The car is a FC 1987 Mazda RX7 TurboII with 4.33:1 rear axle, about 2600 pds total. Engine is a late model 4 bolt main Gen I roller block about 10:1 comp with a TH400 trans.

I'm going to use the stock exhaust so it's quiet and a radical cam would give it away, the car will be autocrossed so big cams are useless when precision and a broad flat torque curve is key.

Here's the car, engine will be relocated about 5" rearward with front and mid motor plates.


The ZZ430 did NOT use that 846 cam which is a Crane cam supplied to CPP(Chev Performance Parts). The LT4 Hotcam kit is what the ZZ430 engines used alomng with 1.6:1 rockers for the 218/228 0.525"/0.525" 112. With 1.5" its 0.492"/0.492".
This cam is 24502586 (586).

The 846 cam has specs of 222/230 0.509"/0.528" with 1.5:1 rockers.
The 847 cam has specs of234/242 0.539"/0.558" with 1.5:1 rockers.

The ZZ465 is a SDPC engine, not a GM crte. Still a decent engine though.

Downloading the new Chev Performance Catalogue as I type.

peace
Hog
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2013, 09:40 AM
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I've used comps cheaper extruded aluminum 1.6 rockers on my 351W in my Bronco with no problems. I only have about 20k on that motor though and only revved it to about 6000 with a mild flat tappet.

The op mentioned using 3/8 studs. What about stepping up to 7/16? I was thinking of doing this on my next motor build. It doesn't seem like the extra cost is that much for a more solid valve train especially if you are using higher ratios. What do you guys think?
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