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Old 01-04-2008, 10:59 PM
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Roller Rocker vs. Roller Tip Rocker

Any of you guys have feelings one way or the other towards either Roller or Roller-Tip rockers?

I've done a little reading but honestly can't find much as far as pro-vs-con concerning the two. The most reliable, would be standard rockers, but sinc I"m rebuliding/upgradeing I figure that I would upgrade the rockers as well. Which of the two are better? more reliable?

I guess the biggest two things that seem to resonate the most are

1. don't buy aluminum it's not reliable
and
2. roller rockers need to be adjusted from time to time where as roller-tip do not.

Am I way off here? Can I buy a set of roller rockers, install them and just close the top on the motor for 200k miles like you can the stock ones?

If any of you guys with experience with these two would could lend some insight, one way or the other, or just to tell me I'm a noob and need to do some more research would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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Old 01-05-2008, 01:01 AM
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IMO, If you are going to use roller tipped rockers, you should just save yourself the money and stick with stamped. Their advantage of friction reduction is minimal.

I went with full roller rockers (aluminum) and loved them. After the initial adjustment, I didn't have to readjust them. Just be sure and get some with the poly locks and read up on how to adjust them the first time.

The likelyhood of closing up any engine for 200k is rare, and its really not a big job to pop a valvecover every now and then if need be. But, in my experience I didn't have to mess with them once I set them and locked them in properly.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:33 AM
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The advantage of roller tipped rockers is not just friction reduction. They reduce side load on the valve stem as opposed to a regular non roller rocker. A decent set of roller tipped Comp Cams rockers can be had on Ebay for quite a bit less than a full on roller set.

Vince
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:32 AM
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I'm either going to rebuild the 305 I have and put a new cam (Possibly retro-roller) in it along with rebuilding the current heads and put new rockers in it (Either roller or roller tip...leaning toward roller tip at the moment for price considerations) or I'm going to build a mild 350 with a block I already have. The finished product will be for my 84 T/A daily driver that honestly, I don't want to put much effort in after this. The engine is the last "Major" component that needed work after the transmission and rear-end that were done last year and when it's done, I can finally put my attention and money where it belongs, on my 67 Camaro.

So the rocker question has significance for both motors. The reason I put 200k as my benchmark is because the current 305 just went over 170K and aside from leaking 2.5 quarts of oil between oil changes, it runs like a champ (Front and rear mains are leaking REALLY bad hehe).
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:12 AM
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I guess the main point I want to get across is to not rule out full roller rockers for fear of maintenence.

If cost is an issue, there are ways to alter the block using a holding plate in the lifter valley so that you can run a stock roller cam setup in a block that would normally require retro lifters. A retro roller cam setup can be very expensive.
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Old 01-05-2008, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggy_Freud
I guess the main point I want to get across is to not rule out full roller rockers for fear of maintenence.

If cost is an issue, there are ways to alter the block using a holding plate in the lifter valley so that you can run a stock roller cam setup in a block that would normally require retro lifters. A retro roller cam setup can be very expensive.
I just looked through my summit catalog and got off the phone with their tech people and yeah, retro roller stuff is damn expensive.

If I go with the 305, I'm looking at a Lunati Voodoo cam (.437 in./.454 exh)
LUN-60100 at summit for reference.

In the 350, I'm looking at the Voodoo roller cam with a (.507/.515)
This one is LUN-60120 at summit.

I'll post the specs for the motor in a different thread when I get to it, so I guess in this thread I was looking for the pros-cons of the roller rockers vs. roller tips for my planned build and which one would be more reliable over the long haul.
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Old 01-05-2008, 12:20 PM
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Roller tip rockers are a waist of money. If you have the geometry set up correctly, the rocker arm tip doesn't travel across the valve tip. All the friction is in the ball/cup area. I would just run a new set of stock stamped steel rockers if you run a small cam. If you really want roller rockers, I actually had good luck with the cheap aluminum ones on my daily driver with a large hydraulic flat tappet cam.
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Old 01-05-2008, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKE FROM SM
Roller tip rockers are a waist of money. If you have the geometry set up correctly, the rocker arm tip doesn't travel across the valve tip. All the friction is in the ball/cup area. I would just run a new set of stock stamped steel rockers if you run a small cam. If you really want roller rockers, I actually had good luck with the cheap aluminum ones on my daily driver with a large hydraulic flat tappet cam.
So I'm better off -- or perhaps just as well off, going with a cheaper summit brand roller than say, the magnum rollers from comp cams?
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozz1967
So I'm better off -- or perhaps just as well off, going with a cheaper summit brand roller than say, the magnum rollers from comp cams?
I bought a Summit set for a SBC once and promptly returned them and bought a Comp Cams set. Three of the summit rockers had a binding/scraping issue before install, I did not install them.
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Old 01-05-2008, 08:48 PM
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GM used aluminum full roller tip and roller trunnion 1.6:1 rockers in teh 1996 LT4 engine. The roller trunnion is needed to prevent ball/cup galling above 6000 rpm. The LT4 engine has a fuel shutoff of 6412 rpm.

Even if the geometry is correct, the tip of a rocker does indeed sweep across teh valve stem tip, evr so slightly. Not much at all, but it does, simple geometry/physics.

No need to readjust them.

peace
Hog
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Old 01-05-2008, 10:27 PM
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I have that type alum. roller rocker on my valve train, not spinning 6500 that often, street driving and all that, 5 years. I have hydraulics with a car saker cam and I will adjust them a few times a year. I like the way the motor seems to have a balance even sound at idle 950 and at curse.. Have this 73 V twin that is a hydraulic motor and it just loves a valve adjustment, make a huge difference in the way runs..

Set and forget if you like just letting you know that I for one believe in adjusting the valves. A very nice thing that make your motor so happy and it rewards you..
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Old 01-06-2008, 01:53 PM
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I too went with the summit aluminum 1.6 ratio roller rockers. I loved them and never had any problem with them (other than forgetting to lock down the poly locks on my first go at adjusting them).
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Old 01-06-2008, 08:32 PM
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I agree with the other guys, you should not have to keep adjusting them. just look for valvecover clearance issues... some heads have raised valvecover rails and stock covers will fit some dont and will have issues other than that just check the pushrod length and throw them in! I have used both aluminum harland sharp and comp pro magnum chromemoly rockers, the later in my daily driver and have had no problems, clean each rocker when you get them and then soak them in oil tell they turn smooth and you will have many trouble free miles.

-Leo-
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Old 01-06-2008, 09:01 PM
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The Harland Sharp is a good rocker for the money. Stay away from the vacuum cast Roller rockers (crane energizer, Earson etc) As far as aluminum RR's being weaker I run a Crane wide body gold rocker on my dragster and I have 305# of spring pressure on the seat and 815# open pressure and I might kill one a year, the bearings break but I have never broken a body. The stainless Comp Cams are nice but they are heavy and the valve train is where you need to save weight the most. I would buy a long slot stamped steel rocker so you don't have any stud interference problems. Also I would not run a RR without a guide plate and the machine work is going to run quite a bit for a stock head.
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Old 01-07-2008, 11:43 AM
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I love roller rockers, however they are definately not created equal, and I would stay away from the procomp as I have had some problems with them in the past...namely and this is just ridiculous to me, the poly lock nuts that come with them do not fit in the slot. I had to buy a new set of ARP nuts (50) so I was out 200 right off the bat. Then I noticed that a few had drag on the rollers right out of the box, then once I got them all installed I had to clearance two of them to get them to clear the valve cover.

Long story short buy good ones and you will be happy for a long time. Also if you think about it, they pretty much never wear out so if you use them as long as a few sets of stamped rockers then you have made your money back.
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