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Old 10-18-2012, 07:57 PM
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Roller tip rockers

I realize that there are many threads concerning this topic but i want to hear some opinions now. Do they actually help with friction? Is there an actual hp gain? Or is this all hype??

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Old 10-18-2012, 08:00 PM
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The biggest gain may be with the ratio, if you want accuracy (and who does not) they are superior to stamped. Stamped can be 1.5 or 1.58 or 1.45 etc. Quality roller tips are typically 1.52 across the board for the standard SBC. Friction is reduced however marginal, noise may increase with roller
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Old 10-18-2012, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Custom10 View Post
The biggest gain may be with the ratio, if you want accuracy (and who does not) they are superior to stamped. Stamped can be 1.5 or 1.58 or 1.45 etc. Quality roller tips are typically 1.52 across the board for the standard SBC. Friction is reduced however marginal, noise may increase with roller
Roller tip rocker ratios can vary just as much, and full roller rockers are rarely their advertised ratio either.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:08 PM
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"Can" varry key word, chances are that you are getting 1.52 +/- a small amount as compared to stamped being produced with far less quality control.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:35 PM
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I saw an episode of PowerBlock TV (flame suit on) a few months ago where they dyno'd the same SBC with stamped, roller tip and full roller rockers. Roller tips made more power than stamped, and full roller made more yet. It wasn't a huge gain, but I think it was a 400-ish HP motor and they gained 8HP (?) from the full roller. The other advantage to the full roller is that the oil temps are reduced greatly. The trunnions on stamped rockers contribute a great deal to increased oil temps.
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Old 10-18-2012, 09:42 PM
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Great answer!
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Old 10-19-2012, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Custom10 View Post
"Can" varry key word, chances are that you are getting 1.52 +/- a small amount as compared to stamped being produced with far less quality control.
"can" as in you'll almost NEVER find a roller tip rocker that matches its advertised ratio, they are usually just as significantly less ratio as stamped ones. Full roller ones are too, the brand I remember being the closest was Scorpion and I think the Comp Golds were close too.

Don't kid yourself.
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
"can" as in you'll almost NEVER find a roller tip rocker that matches its advertised ratio, they are usually just as significantly less ratio as stamped ones. Full roller ones are too, the brand I remember being the closest was Scorpion and I think the Comp Golds were close too.

Don't kid yourself.
I have 3 sets of comp, CAMS pro magunm s/s full rollers.. 2 sets are small block and one is big block..
they are off only .ooo5%
I've never run alum roller rockers and never will..
I've also seen what the pro junk does and the failure rate... at the ball socket..
all mine are full rollers.. not just roller tipped..
roller rockers ,there is a reason some are 300.oo+ and others are 119.oo
like most things in this world you get what you pay for....
note that my sets where from
first set 1990
2nd set 1999
big block set 2004
so I can't comment on the quality of comps s/s/ full rollers FORGED out today..
but I'm doubting it's gone down..

remember kids
pro-comp is NOT comp cams
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Old 10-19-2012, 05:41 AM
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Regular stamped rockers have two slide areas - the trunnion is the first one, the tip at the valve stem is the other. Installing just the roller tip version accomplishes two things. The first is that it reduces the friction at the valve stem tip, secondly, it may reduce the oil temp a degree or so. The biggest advantage when you reduce that sliding effect is to reduce the sideways push of the valve stem and the eventual wear on the valve guide as well as the stem. This can be especially helpful if you are on a very limited budget, can't afford new heads or even the cost new valve guides and have to resort to knurling - and a way I had to go once with 2 kids in college - and they worked well. Since the price of a good name brand cast roller rocker is now reasonably close to a roller tip version, I couldn't, today, even consider a roller tip only version in an engine that is only mildly modified
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Old 10-19-2012, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
Regular stamped rockers have two slide areas - the trunnion is the first one, the tip at the valve stem is the other. Installing just the roller tip version accomplishes two things. The first is that it reduces the friction at the valve stem tip, secondly, it may reduce the oil temp a degree or so. The biggest advantage when you reduce that sliding effect is to reduce the sideways push of the valve stem and the eventual wear on the valve guide as well as the stem. This can be especially helpful if you are on a very limited budget, can't afford new heads or even the cost new valve guides and have to resort to knurling - and a way I had to go once with 2 kids in college - and they worked well. Since the price of a good name brand cast roller rocker is now reasonably close to a roller tip version, I couldn't, today, even consider a roller tip only version in an engine that is only mildly modified
Good answer! Big lift will trash the valve guide very quickly without proper full rollers.

Full rollers and roller tip rockers are made very accurate. If they dont measure the correct ratio its because they were designed that way. Some rockers have an advertised lift rate and actual lift rate. The reason for this is because if they were a full 1.7 or even 1.6 they would not work without offset lifters or odd sized pushrods.

You can buy 1.6 actual ratio rockers in steel steel roller tip and full roller alum. The aluminums are the most acurate because they can mod the push rod side to get the proper angles to suppor that lift without other parts. Steel does would be to heavy to make the pushrod cup that thick. So they are not a full 1.6 ratio.

You can buy and install 1.6 stamp steel with or without the roller and make them work just have to install offset lifters probaly a different size for intake and exthuast. then have custom pushrods made up. Since only oval track racers use them the available push rods are to large for most normal builds. 1/2 push rods will look a little funny on a street motor. so custom length 5/16 molly rods will need to be made. Also need guide plates and special nuts to go along with it.

Just get the full roller aluminums they work great dont cost much and dont require special offset lifters and rods. They have push rods on the shelf to support most alum rockers.

Just remeber if you buy 1.7 they will read out at 1.67 and work in your stock head with little or no machine work. Full 1.7+ will require cutting the head and lots of other special parts to make them work properly.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-19-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
"can" as in you'll almost NEVER find a roller tip rocker that matches its advertised ratio, they are usually just as significantly less ratio as stamped ones. Full roller ones are too, the brand I remember being the closest was Scorpion and I think the Comp Golds were close too.

Don't kid yourself.
Who is kidding who? my point is that you have a much better chance of aquiring the correct ratio out of the box than with stamped steel, I dont care that some rollers may be off a tad as well.

If you think that stamped are just as accurate as quality roller tip or full roller then go ahead install stamped on all your engines.
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Old 10-19-2012, 08:29 AM
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Type does not matter on quaility. You can buy a poorly built anything these days.

Rocker arms made by the top manufacturers are all acurate. You did not read the spec sheet to see they were adjusted for ppl that dont read the specs and always buy the wrong part. Also ratio can only be calculated by measuring the valve movement. You cant tell by holding a ruler up to the rocker and guestamatting its lift.

The plate the is used to stamp out steel rockers cost up to a million dollars to get made it is not cheaper to get one that is messed up some how. I find it hard to believe that a stamped part made in one stamping with no drilling or finish work other than minor deburring is not acurate. These machines are always dead on there is 100 tons of pressure making sure of it.

The big companies making these rockers make them dead on. GM to comp cams. Its also not the focus of this post.

No something that actually applies to this post:
Roller tip rockers do save a few hpuppies. But old school guys will tell you they are weaker than many regular stamped steel rockers. I got to admit I have seen very few steel rockers fail and all the ones that have had the roller attached. Go with good set of full aluminum rollers and you can use them on your next engine. Make sure they have needle bearings and not just brass bushings.
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Old 10-19-2012, 12:21 PM
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When roller rockers first came out, Racer Brown (camshaft manufacturer) set up a high speed camera and filmed the action at speed. He found that the roller tip roller was too small in diameter to make a mechanical couple with the valve stem tip and that the rollers just skidded across the valve tip.

The roller trunnion, on the other hand has shown to reduce friction and oil temps.

Therefore, if I could find a roller trunnion with a stamped tip, that would seem to be the ideal unit.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
When roller rockers first came out, Racer Brown (camshaft manufacturer) set up a high speed camera and filmed the action at speed. He found that the roller tip roller was too small in diameter to make a mechanical couple with the valve stem tip and that the rollers just skidded across the valve tip.

The roller trunnion, on the other hand has shown to reduce friction and oil temps.

Therefore, if I could find a roller trunnion with a stamped tip, that would seem to be the ideal unit.
like a stock LS rocker... GM may know a thing or two after all.
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Old 10-19-2012, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
When roller rockers first came out, Racer Brown (camshaft manufacturer) set up a high speed camera and filmed the action at speed. He found that the roller tip roller was too small in diameter to make a mechanical couple with the valve stem tip and that the rollers just skidded across the valve tip.

The roller trunnion, on the other hand has shown to reduce friction and oil temps.

Therefore, if I could find a roller trunnion with a stamped tip, that would seem to be the ideal unit.
I disagree. I would hope that the roller rocker armtechnology has gone well beyond this in the 50-60 years that Racer Brown may have made this archaic 'discovery'. I would like to see your referred to info write up if for no other reason but self education. I'm thinking that NASCAR, NHRA and many years of circle track racing have proven the worth of a full roller rocker arm and how they relate to engine longevity. While the roller tip, its roller bearings or even the trunnion bearings will not run a full circle at some magic rpm, they will surely at least rotate a few degrees of arc. Based on just simple physics 101, I do NOT want something sliding across the entire valve tip, making heat, wearing both pieces plus the valve guides if I can have a component that will make an approximate.060" contact on the center of a valve tip, minimizing side thrust as well as heat and the related wear.

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