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Old 06-29-2011, 07:37 AM
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Rookie Gonna Replace Rockers - Tools & Materials Quesions

2001 GMC Sierra...rotted out rockers. She's got 204k miles, so I dont want to dump a wad of cash into it, so I'm gonna do it myself. Replacement Rocker & Cab Corner gonna be here tomorrow.
I'm comfortable doing the mecanical aspect (cutting out, replacing panels, etc)...my questions are on the finishing aspect.

-Primer. As a Base Primer I was originally gonna use SPI Epoxy (was going to get a gallon for my plow restoration anyways), but my FIL is saying I should POR15 it first, Then prime with a normal Etch primer ...OR try some of the MasterCoat Silver Primer.

-Filler...any filler best to use? Or something like Evercoat Rage gonna be good? or is there something cheaper I should use?

Not looking for a showroom finish, just want something that looks better then rotted out panels and lasts for a few years...still debating on whether I should "two tone" my truck and go with a satin black or undercoating down there...or shoot it red like the rest of the truck.

As I said, I'm a "Refinishing Rookie"...I was also going to get an Ingersoll Rand 4152 sander...Would that be a good enough "single sander solution" for a rough refinishing job?

Thanks for any help.

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudland_Dave
-Primer. As a Base Primer I was originally gonna use SPI Epoxy (was going to get a gallon for my plow restoration anyways), but my FIL is saying I should POR15 it first, Then prime with a normal Etch primer ...OR try some of the MasterCoat Silver Primer.
You won't get ANY respect mentioning POR. This is snake oil used for temporary patchwork and no reputable bodyshop will touch it which speaks a lot about it. Many folks use it not knowing what will happen long term. SPI will do you right with no regrets.

Quote:
-Filler...any filler best to use? Or something like Evercoat Rage gonna be good? or is there something cheaper I should use?
"Cheaper" is the key word and the answer is "no". Evercoat is good stuff. You'll like it and get lasting results. You DO plan to replace ALL rusted metal and not patch it with filler, right??
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMatch
You won't get ANY respect mentioning POR. This is snake oil used for temporary patchwork and no reputable bodyshop will touch it which speaks a lot about it. Many folks use it not knowing what will happen long term. SPI will do you right with no regrets.
I kinda feel the same, which is why I asked the question.. So SPI Epoxy is OK to use over lightly rusted areas? Meaning, I wont be able to sand EVERYTHING down 100%....Might be a few nooks & crannies I cant get to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMatch
"Cheaper" is the key word and the answer is "no". Evercoat is good stuff. You'll like it and get lasting results. You DO plan to replace ALL rusted metal and not patch it with filler, right??
10-4, I'll pick up some Evercoat shortly....I had mentioned Rage in my original post, but I see they have quite a few forumlatiuons, for work like this, is there one that would be better then an other? Cost seem to be close... 1 Gal of Rage is $42.00, Rage Extreme $45.00....Or I could drop down to Evercoat Chromealite for 14.00. This is where I'm getting confused.

Yep the plan is to replace as much of the rust as I can with new steel. Got a replacement slip on rocker and new cab corner coming tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMatch
Many folks use it not knowing what will happen long term.
As a side note, what ARE The long term effects or POR15? I only ask cause my FIL recently got turned onto it last summer and has been going wild with it lately... A) I'm gonna have to tread lightly around the wife cause he's coming to help me out to do my body work, and B) I'd like to inform him if possible of any side effects and turn him onto something better if possible.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMatch
You won't get ANY respect mentioning POR. This is snake oil used for temporary patchwork and no reputable bodyshop will touch it which speaks a lot about it. Many folks use it not knowing what will happen long term. SPI will do you right with no regrets.



"Cheaper" is the key word and the answer is "no". Evercoat is good stuff. You'll like it and get lasting results. You DO plan to replace ALL rusted metal and not patch it with filler, right??
it's been my experience that por 15 needs a slight amount of rust in order to adhere, so if it's clean metal it will sheet off. With that being said, who wants metal to have surface rust when sealing it off?

I like zero rust but wouldn't paint over it.
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Old 06-30-2011, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudland_Dave
2001 GMC Sierra.

-Primer. As a Base Primer I was originally gonna use SPI Epoxy (was going to get a gallon for my plow restoration anyways), but my FIL is saying I should POR15 it first, Then prime with a normal Etch primer ...OR try some of the MasterCoat Silver Primer.



Thanks for any help.
OMG, NO!! ...First thing is stop talking to your FIL....
Your new rockers will need a good cleaning with wax & grease remover before you do anything This will get the oils and other contaminates off so your primer will stick.Do yourself a favor and prime the back sides before you get started.sand the metal before you prime and epoxy primer is best (fact) of them SPI is the best (opinion) If you can read a tape measure its not TOO complicated but use drill screws to hold everything together until everything is just right and ready to weld..be very sure to always clean with W&G before priming.
Slip on rocker are a no no get full rockers
if that por 15 guy is gonna help and you turn him on to this way of doing things he'll throw every gal of por15 away and never touch any more etch primer again...
Before you start cutting ANYTHING replace the hinge pins and bushings it only costs about 20.00 ...Then adjust your doors for good gaps and the best fit possible,use the gaps to moniter any movement in the cab when cutting the rockers out..it shouldnt be a problem its just a precaution ,gaps do close up sometimes and finding out after its all welded that your doors wont close happens all the time ,another good reason to use drill screws and ckeck everything for a good fit BEFORE welding...

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Old 06-30-2011, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by deadbodyman
OMG, NO!! ...First thing is stop talking to your FIL....
Easier said then done...LOL...I dont feel like sleeping on the couch! But I do know what you mean...like I said before, I'm here to get the scoop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Your new rockers will need a good cleaning with wax & grease remover before you do anything This will get the oils and other contaminates off so your primer will stick.Do yourself a favor and prime the back sides before you get started.sand the metal before you prime and epoxy primer is best (fact) of them SPI is the best (opinion) If you can read a tape measure its not TOO complicated but use drill screws to hold everything together until everything is just right and ready to weld..be very sure to always clean with W&G before priming.
10-4... If they come factory primed, would you prime em again? So I'm taking it the SPI Epoxy is OK to use over some/little rust,that I cant get to on the back sides for example?
Speaking of screws before welding...Welding WAS the plan, but Local DuPont Jobber is saying I should forget about welding and use something like Evercoat Maxim instead of welding...just as strong and much easier? Said most if not all pro shops have virtually ditched the welders?
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudland_Dave
I kinda feel the same, which is why I asked the question.. So SPI Epoxy is OK to use over lightly rusted areas? Meaning, I wont be able to sand EVERYTHING down 100%....Might be a few nooks & crannies I cant get to.
Any rust left can come back and bite you. Now's your chance to fix it so the more time spent here the better you'll sleep at night. SPI can be used over flash rust on an as needed basis but no one warranties over actual rust. Look into wire brush wheels on drills and grinders along with media blasting.

Quote:

10-4, I'll pick up some Evercoat shortly....I had mentioned Rage in my original post, but I see they have quite a few forumlatiuons, for work like this, is there one that would be better then an other? Cost seem to be close... 1 Gal of Rage is $42.00, Rage Extreme $45.00....Or I could drop down to Evercoat Chromealite for 14.00. This is where I'm getting confused.
Rage and or Extreme both work for me with no regrets. No reason to cheap out here and no reason for me to try something different.

Quote:
As a side note, what ARE The long term effects or POR15? I only ask cause my FIL recently got turned onto it last summer and has been going wild with it lately... A) I'm gonna have to tread lightly around the wife cause he's coming to help me out to do my body work, and B) I'd like to inform him if possible of any side effects and turn him onto something better if possible.
POR claims and it's been proven it ONLY works over rust or with some idiotic treatment, which means, where it "accidentally" hits bare metal, it will peal. I've seen this first hand. I use it inside doors and such where I have no other choice but those areas are bare from the factory so wd40 is an improvement however temporary. I spilled some POR on concrete and figured that was permanent. A couple of weeks and it lifted as if applied over oil even though it was still on my hands. Name a paint that won't stick to clean concrete! POR can't be reliably painted over. Tested in a marine environment, other paints beat the snot out of it. If you're shooting lawn furniture, go for it. For a restoration, it's just not acceptable and that's the angle you need to approach your FIL with.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Spudland_Dave
Local DuPont Jobber is saying I should forget about welding and use something like Evercoat Maxim instead of welding...just as strong and much easier? Said most if not all pro shops have virtually ditched the welders?
I can't speak for the Maxim, but here's my thoughts overall: Bodyshops are about speed and shorter warranties plus the thinner beercans used in today's cars makes welding difficult. This fits their needs. Gluing panels together requires overlapping seams which requires more filler which leaves more room for cracking later on. Welding in patches is the closest you can get to original - less filler and stronger. The glue might be better when you can't get to the backside for priming as the welding will rust on the back if not covered, but it's still the preferred method of restores. You're talking about 2 different worlds - fast paced new car recycled beercan bodywork for money with little pride versus slow paced restorations on real metal which WILL be noticed. All my gluing is done with liquid metal mixed with argon and CO2.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:28 AM
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No primer is OK for going over active rust There is only 2 good proceedures I'll recomend to kill the rust one is sandblasting the other is Ospho (by name only) theres a lot of info on both just go to the top of the page and do a search. I prefer Ospho over sandblasting for many reasons but you'll have to PM me if its something you want to try so I can give you the proper proceedure for using it , I've been using it for years...and I speak of it just as highly as my SPI epoxy primer...
Sometimes replacement steel comes primed it'll last a while but it wont last long enough,I have to garuntee my rust work so I always sand the cheap primer off and start over from bare steel ,its a much better way to do it and dont take much time at all ,80 grit on your DA and an hour is all you need. I've done tons of these old trucks ,the parts are cheap and they fit very well now days ,it wasnt always that way.
The glues are these days are pretty awesome but will never take the place of welding NEVER but if you dont have a welder its a good option for something with a full frame,an expensive one but an option you can get away with.you'll need a lot more screws (every inch) and you'll need to flange all the seams for the best results and the measuring is a lot more critical.
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:50 AM
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LOL,FIL = father in law ....I was wondering what that meant......Now its me thats is learning something
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by deadbodyman
The glues are these days are pretty awesome but will never take the place of welding NEVER but if you dont have a welder its a good option for something with a full frame,an expensive one but an option you can get away with.you'll need a lot more screws (every inch) and you'll need to flange all the seams for the best results and the measuring is a lot more critical.
I DO have a really nice Miller Maxstar, but problem is, she's a stick machine....stick & sheet metal (rusty, thin metal at that) arent exactly a prefered combination either. I was gonna try to stitch it as best I could with some 5/32 6013's...
"Gluing" my panels on wasnt my idea of a repair...but I just want to get another 5 years out of this truck.....Here in the rust belt, not even a new truck lasts...That in addition to 200k+ miles means the good is out of this truck...This isnt a "restoration" like we did on our Chevelle, this is a "good enough to get a sticker for a couple years" type job
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:52 AM
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LOL,FIL = father in law ....I was wondering what that meant......Now its me thats is learning something
Now you see why I gotta be "politically correct"...
I like sleeping in the Big Cozy Bed with SWMBO (SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed)
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:53 AM
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You would be better off using glue than a stick...
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Old 06-30-2011, 07:58 AM
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Now you see why I gotta be "politically correct"...
I like sleeping in the Big Cozy Bed with SWMBO (SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed)
Your young yet. It takes a while but you'll get used to the couch.and a stiff....................neck insted
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Old 06-30-2011, 08:20 AM
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Being in Maine and having a plow I personally would not bother getting to extravagant on primers. It will probably never matter given the abuses it will be subjected to IMHO
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