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Old 02-05-2013, 03:18 PM
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To RTV or not to RTV...

Okay, I have been reassessing several of my shade-tree mechanic practices from the past several years and the use of RTV has come up. My understanding / preference has always been to use only when necessary. That said, does anyone have a quick rule of thumb on when to use and when not to use?

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Old 02-05-2013, 03:28 PM
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I use it one everything that wont see high heat or pressure (exhaust or head gaskets) on water pumps, oil pans, intakes, carb gaskets, valve covers, etc. Always use it.

Yes many people can get by without it, but its never CAUSED a problem for me and I've also never had the leak issues that I often hear of.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:56 PM
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A little goes a Long way. I use it all the time! What I like to do is apply it with an ink roller. I lay out the, paper, gasket on the card board backer,
the gasket comes with, lay a bead of silicone then roll it out thin. Both sides. I learned this trick sealing Bike engines together works awesome,
just roll it out on the case half's. Cleans up with a little WD-40.
Like anything, you got new on new, you probably don't need it but after somebody has pried it apart and left gouge's or good ole corrosion, well.........
I hate leaks just as much as my customers!
Hope this helps.

Last edited by BigEsGarage; 02-05-2013 at 04:14 PM. Reason: clarity of information
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:07 PM
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You never use it (or at least I don't) on rubber or cork gaskets. There are better choices than RTV for certain gaskets. I use the Aviation grade Permatex alot more than I do RTV.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:47 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Originally Posted by S10 Racer View Post
You never use it (or at least I don't) on rubber or cork gaskets. There are better choices than RTV for certain gaskets. I use the Aviation grade Permatex alot more than I do RTV.
Permatex is a brand, not a sealant- they make many different sealants, many different types of RTV too... They're probably one of the most used brands of RTV as well.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:28 PM
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I use it a lot,, But NEVER on a head gasket,,,, And very very little on a trans pan gasket...
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Permatex is a brand, not a sealant- they make many different sealants, many different types of RTV too... They're probably one of the most used brands of RTV as well.
Ok smart ***, here is what I use. I hate that words are censored. I just attached a photo so maybe you could comprehend.
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by S10 Racer View Post
Ok smart ***, here is what I use. I hate that words are censored. I just attached a photo so maybe you could comprehend.
I wasn't being a ********, I just happen to know Permatex makes the black oil resistant RTV that I use fairly often. It's a brand and is easily found at autozone and advance auto parts around here. They may stock the stuff you use as well.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
I use it one everything that wont see high heat or pressure (exhaust or head gaskets)....
Times are changing, this from Sanderson Headers, they do not recommend any gasket with their ceramic headers, this is a pert of what was included with my ceramic headers and turnouts, delivered today:

"Basic Installation Procedure

5. Install two studs, one in each end of the cylinder head to align the flange.Permatex Ultra-Black Sealer

6. Place a bead of Permatexģ #82180 Ultra Blackģ Silicone (or compatible) at least 1/8" thick, maximum 1/4". Allow the silicone to set until dry.

7. Put the header into place. Install all header bolts finger-tight, the torque to 15-20 ft/lbs..."

This is a new one on me too, and has to do with their "New header flange technology..."

Sanderson Header installation tips and upkeep on your Sanderson Headers.
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Old 02-06-2013, 06:44 AM
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with a heavy enough flange I could see not using gaskets, but there is also a sealant designed for exhaust heat, I believe its silicone based. I haven't used it but I hear a lot of people only use that and never a gasket.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:38 AM
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None of our in-house transfercases and only some of our gearboxes have gaskets. We use Valco (brand) silver-colored RTV. Brand doesn't matter as much, however Valco makes a widget called a 'Tube-Grip'; its a plier-looking gizmo that can apply a very narrow, uniform bead; better than the caulking gun or 'cheez-whiz can' applicators. We use way less RTV, have a LOT less clean up time and don't have issues with the accidental gob of RTV.

Also of note: some RTV-type sealants have a lot of acetic acid which can out-gas and cause rusting if the unit sits too long without use. Is it critical? Not usually, but its something to think about if your project is going to sit a long time without turning it over. We'd prefer an Anerobic sealant, but a lot of our customers wouldn't buy it if we specified it anyway. Be careful on items that need a specific amount of backlash, some of these RTV-type sealants can expand a lot and change your dimensions.

http://www.valco-cp.com/Tube Grip Dispenser.htm

Thats the link to the Tube Grip; Valco also has Hylomar which is some interesting stuff for certain applications. It doesn't harden or set and can withstand some pretty wild temperature swings.

I'm not a Rep for Valco, but I thought I'd mention them as an alternative.
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Old 02-06-2013, 07:49 AM
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A couple "rules of thumb":

RTV is only used in the corners where pans/blocks/heads/manifolds "come together". Some engine families need the pan lips "beaded". NEVER on the pan "rails".

Two machined surfaces and a paper gasket, DRY, is the MOST effective way to seal.

If a little is enough, A LITTLE IS ENOUGH! A "lot" is NOT better.

Permatex "Ultra Black" is the only type (RTV) we use on internal engine parts. Not a "high temperature" sealant, I would avoid it on the headers. The red "High Temp" RTV is more desirable there.

Permatex "Aviation" is a brush-on sealant used around water outlets in heads, oil pump flanges, and other areas where minimum "thickness" of the glue is desired. It is also the sealant "of choice" for head bolts that go into water (Chevy, big Dodge, some Fords). Similar products you may be familiar with are "Indian Head", "Kopper Kote" (brush on) and Permatex "Super 300". "Aviation" is FAA-approved for use in internal combustion engines.

"The Right Stuff" (also a Permatex product) is quite popular these days. I don't like it, as it's too hard to "work" with.

Far-and-away the most problems we see with DIY builds, is too much sealant used. Sheet metal parts get damaged trying to get them off. Oil pumps die a horrible death when globs of RTV get sucked in. I've even seen a Rambler V8 with the oil passage from the pump to the block almost completely blocked, where no sealant AT ALL was needed.

We "glue" model cars together. Real ones use bolts... (:-

Jim
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body View Post
A couple "rules of thumb":
Permatex "Ultra Black" is the only type (RTV) we use on internal engine parts. Not a "high temperature" sealant, I would avoid it on the headers. The red "High Temp" RTV is more desirable there. Jim
I tend to agree Jim, but why would a major manufacturer like Sanderson specify it (Permatex RTV Black) to seal their header flanges? I questioned it too, but with the price of their headers, I feel the consumer should follow their directions, if for no other reason, warranty.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:50 PM
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If its a pain to install your new headers, I would call Sanderson and ask. Although, there used to be a woman there that was...not customer friendly...to say the least; I cannot remember her name for the life of me, but I'd avoid her if you want an answer

I know, it sounds like a BS answer, but when we recommend something, I have no trouble explaining why we feel that strongly to the customer
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:37 PM
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If you use a sealer with a gasket only put the sealer/glue on the part surface not ht engine side. You will be happy you did it this way if you ever need to take it back apart. Most if not all of the gasket will stay on the removable part.
If you are just gluing a gasket for ease of install the 3M weather strip adhesive works great. I have used this for years on water pump and other troublesome gaskets.
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