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Old 05-03-2010, 10:27 PM
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running hot

hello everyone!!! yea... yea... i'm the newbie, i am the proud owner of a 65 chevy impala fastback, 350 cid, 350 turbo tran's, 461 humper head's, edlebrock performer intake, edlebrock 650 carb, 1" spacer, cam unknown, compression unknown, hei distributor, afco aluminum radiator, 16" electric fan,180 degree thermo, new w/pump Car is ok! while driving, but when im in stop and go traffic, or stopped,for a period of time, that temp gauge will strat cireaping up til i have to pull over, and let cool, so embarrasing, also every time i stop weather hot or cold, i have to put it in neutural or the car will jerk while holding the brake, and eventually bog-out. i was told that i may need a torque converter, but not sure which one to buy, it's obvious that i have a aftermarket cam, but it does'nt hit very hard,i would say a mild lop to it. please help guy's thank's.

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Old 05-03-2010, 10:54 PM
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If your car has a radical cam then i would suggest a converter with at least a 2300 stall for the street and strip car
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:02 PM
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Do you happen to have a lockup torque converter? are you going over 60 mph or coming off the highway ramp then gradually stop and it jerks and kills itself?
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:37 PM
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doen'nt sound like a radical cam, i would say inbetween light and almost radical, if there is such a term!!! too the other responder, as far as i know it does'nt have a lock up converter, i do know that it does'nt have a kick-down cable. any ??? about my heating problem's
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romey
doen'nt sound like a radical cam, i would say inbetween light and almost radical, if there is such a term!!! too the other responder, as far as i know it does'nt have a lock up converter, i do know that it does'nt have a kick-down cable. any ??? about my heating problem's
seems to be that your radiator is to small in my camaro i had the same problems until i swapped the thermostat. I went to a 160 now it runs 110' at cruisin and gets no further than 190' at a traffic area.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:54 PM
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If it works fine on the highway and you pull off to stop and go traffic and it starts overheating then its something to do with either as stated above too small a radiator or I believe its got something to do with the fan.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpcrossfire6
If it works fine on the highway and you pull off to stop and go traffic and it starts overheating then its something to do with either as stated above too small a radiator or I believe its got something to do with the fan.
yeah def. need a fan(elec) running at all times during traffic. good one forgot about that.
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Old 05-04-2010, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romey
Car is ok! while driving, but when im in stop and go traffic, or stopped,for a period of time, that temp gauge will strat cireaping up til i have to pull over, and let cool, so embarrasing, also every time i stop weather hot or cold, i have to put it in neutural or the car will jerk while holding the brake, and eventually bog-out. i was told that i may need a torque converter, but not sure which one to buy, it's obvious that i have a aftermarket cam, but it does'nt hit very hard,i would say a mild lop to it.
To start with, get the timing curve sorted out. This has a lot to do w/the engine temperature and idle quality.

What is the initial and total timing (w/o vacuum advance added) and are you using a vacuum advance?

And, what is the engine vacuum at idle.

What temp are you calling "hot"?
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Old 05-04-2010, 10:40 AM
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In my combo i have a pretty mild cam without a converter and it has no troubles keeping cool. Being that it heats up at low speeds it sounds like more of an air flow issue, or timing. Do you have a shroud for the fan? if not how much area is uncovered. Because without a shroud the fan will only pull air from directly in front of it, not very effective. Id drop the thermostat to a 160, see about fabbing up a shroud, possibly run a collant additive, (water wetter) and see how that works out
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romey
hello everyone!!! yea... yea... i'm the newbie, i am the proud owner of a 65 chevy impala fastback, 350 cid, 350 turbo tran's, 461 humper head's, edlebrock performer intake, edlebrock 650 carb, 1" spacer, cam unknown, compression unknown, hei distributor, afco aluminum radiator, 16" electric fan,180 degree thermo, new w/pump Car is ok! while driving, but when im in stop and go traffic, or stopped,for a period of time, that temp gauge will strat cireaping up til i have to pull over, and let cool, so embarrasing, also every time i stop weather hot or cold, i have to put it in neutural or the car will jerk while holding the brake, and eventually bog-out. i was told that i may need a torque converter, but not sure which one to buy, it's obvious that i have a aftermarket cam, but it does'nt hit very hard,i would say a mild lop to it. please help guy's thank's.
Cooling fine on the road, but not when stopped, is a sure fire sign that not enough air is being pulled thru the radiator when the vehicle isn't moving. This is why the factory uses a shroud around the perimeter of the radiator to about 1/2 the depth of the fan blade twist. Electric fans are not too high on my list of effectively designed parts, I much prefer a water pump driven fan with a thermo clutch if you have the space.

If your just stuck with an electric for what ever reason, the best choice is a puller configuration between the radiator and the water pump with a shroud. Two smaller fans work better than a single large one and they can be had with shrouds, though none work as well as the factory pump driven layouts. To get these to work really takes careful design and execution. Electric fans are not to be mounted to the radiator. Many kits use plastic bolts through the core tubes and fins. These will always abrade the tubes and fins till failure occurs to them. The fan must attach to hard structure and be isolated from contact with the radiator. Pusher fans are the least effective. The problem to be solved is to produce an air flow across the entire face area of the core. With a puller fan at the back end of a shroud a low pressure area is created at the shrouds entry point which happens to be where the radiator is located. When a fan just sits in-front or behind a radiator the only effective air flow thru the core is immediately in front of the blade diameter. So much of the core is doing very little in the way of heat transfer. Pusher designs even with multi fans also leave large areas of the core with little to no air flow through the fins, since they do not build a pressure differential area across then entire core area.

Your idle problem sounds like the engine loads up when idling. Additionally you need to find out what the cam timing and lift is. A stock converter is working on the upper end of its stall range when the cam timing approaches 215-220 degrees from .050 inch tappet lift. Using 1.6 rockers makes that look 7 percent bigger than a 1.5 rocker. While higher ratio rockers don't change duration, the faster events with the more lift they create makes the engine act as if there is more camshaft duration. So at 220 degrees with a 1.5 rocker will look like 235 degrees to the engine, especially where the port flow of the head is also increased. At red line and WOT this adds power, at idle it adds headaches. If the car wants to tug at the brakes constantly when stopped, this is a good sign that it needs more converter stall or less idle speed. The cam determines idle speed, if it needs more than 600 RPM idle in gear, the converter will put too much load on the engine and will try to drag the idle down or shoot the car thru the stop if the engine is strong enough to keep its idle up against the converter.


Bogie
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:42 AM
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Location of the temp. gauge sender could make a difference in the temp. reading. If it's on the head, move it up by the water outlet.

I had a '67 Nova with a .060-over 283, that would do the same thing as your car (cool while moving, temp. goes up when in traffic). Thermostat or not, it always did the same thing. At idle I could feel the air being pulled through the radiator (I could put a rag up against the front of the radiator, and the vacuum from the fan would hold it there). Everything being the same as a stock 283, except it was .060-over...I came to the conclusion that the block was too thin from being bored. Not to say your engine is bored out, but if it is, that could be the problem (even though select "professionals" on this board would disagree...).
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:43 AM
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Very well put bogie!
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1supersport
Location of the temp. gauge sender could make a difference in the temp. reading. If it's on the head, move it up by the water outlet.

I had a '67 Nova with a .060-over 283, that would do the same thing as your car (cool while moving, temp. goes up when in traffic). Thermostat or not, it always did the same thing. At idle I could feel the air being pulled through the radiator (I could put a rag up against the front of the radiator, and the vacuum from the fan would hold it there). Everything being the same as a stock 283, except it was .060-over...I came to the conclusion that the block was too thin from being bored. Not to say your engine is bored out, but if it is, that could be the problem (even though select "professionals" on this board would disagree...).
Boring thins the cylinder wall and speeds the rate of heat transfer as there simply isn't as much metal for the heat to travel thru. Aluminum heads do a similar thing becase of its faster rate of heat transfer. But any decent radiator that stood up to a 283 ought to handle the heat transfer resulting from a .060 overbore. Problems occur when the engine is also suped up or improperly set up. At WOT you get into a situation where an OEM sized radiator isn't up to handling the added BTUs. At low speeds in a high compression, long cammed engine much of the fuel is burnt too late in the cycle putting a huge heat load in the cylinder wall instead of using it to push the piston, for the RPMs being turned, to where there isn't enough coolant flow nor air flow, but in actuality for the BTU rejection the radiator is of sufficient size, just not enough coolant or air going thru it.

Bogie
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:23 PM
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heating problem

hey! thank's guy's i'll will check, and go through everything u guy's have told me, when time& money permit's, and get back with u'all. by the way i do have a nice costom made shrout that cover the entire area, and is a tight fit, and a 16" perfect hole cut out of it for the 16" fan, thank again!!!!
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