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Old 02-23-2009, 08:24 PM
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Rust Evaluation Please take a look.

am completed on the sheet metal work for the most part and undercoating the entire car. The Ghia was sandblasted but has not been primed. I know it should have been but I didn't know that at the time. I have sandblasted as I went over again. But the entire outside of the body is a big deal when you are doing it in your backyard with a 40 lb blaster. My surface rust looks like the rust below. Kind of like snow flakes.

I know sandblasting is best but what are other options?

Thanks,

SAM
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Old 02-23-2009, 10:30 PM
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Disclaimer: I do not consider myself a bodyman but.. a good Urethane primer (Transtar EZ sand 2k Acrylic) would cover that just fine. It's a high build 4,1,1 primer. The 'tooth' of a blasted surface shouldn't need an 'etching' primer.
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Old 02-24-2009, 12:16 AM
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I had the same issues with restoration. I would do whatever you did in the second picture to remove the surface rust working in only an area that you can prime within a day or two if the car is inside, then shoot it in epoxy primer. A fine bristle wire wheel works well, but will smooth the surface and require you to DA with 80 grit for bite. Finish sanding with 120 before the epoxy, making sure you clean the metal before and after each phase of sanding with wax and grease remover until your white cloth is clean to prevent fish eyes and you are good to go. The epoxy will seal the bare metal and prevent the surface rust from happening so you can rest easy and move on with the project. my .02
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:54 AM
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The DA sander I used on the bare metal did a terrible job. It is not the nicest DA but I bought it new at Lowes. It tends to slow down if you put any amount of pressure on it and if you don't it will only clean an area about 1" wide of so.

What do you like to treat the metal with after hand sanding? Ospho?

Also, if anyone has a video of them DA sanding bare metal I would appreciate it if you would post a link. I am just trying to figure out if I am doiing something wrong or if I should take this sander back.

Thanks,

SAM
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:24 AM
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Sounds like your compressor is not supplying enough air? Anyway, you should not have to apply a lot of pressure, only enough to "mechanically etch" the metal. Don't sand it until you remove the rust with a wire wheel and drill. Since you blasted it, the rust might be in small sand blast pits and using a DA to remove that rust would require you to remove to much metal. The wire wheel seems to dig and clean better, at least it did for me.

As far as a wax and grease remover, I used Dupont's prep-sol. Apply it with a spray bottle and it will last longer than dipping a rag in it. Also, make sure that it is a cleaner that doesn't flash quickly so that you can remove the solvent while it is still wet. There are some good threads here that go over bare metal prep and wax and grease removers. I owe this forum for a lot of knowledge and time saved, still a beginner though.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:03 AM
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I am only using a 6 inch DA pad. Should I use a bigger one? It only cleans about a 1" wide path.

SAM
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:38 AM
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the "search" link function in the header is set up so you can research any specific topic...
or look thru the "Knowledge Base" link at the very top of this page for articles A to Z on any part of a car like this rust removal example:

secrets of surface rust removal revealed

OSPHO is just a rust "convertor" don't use it on sheet metal...
the phosphoric acid only turns the rust into flakes and any residule left behind is not Ph compatible with auto paint...

if you do use any acid products,,,give it a baking soda bath to neutralize the surface...

BE very careful with any sanding or wire wheeling,,,old steel WILL "oil can" (distort) due to the heat....
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:15 AM
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Red65mustang,

Yea I have done searches and have actually read that thread a few times. you say not to use acid. He uses Naval Jelly so this thread is focused on that. Also, after the naval jelly he cleans up with wax and grease remover. Never heard about the baking soda thing before. For give me if I am new to this but I thought one way of doing this was to use Phos. Acid then DA. Do I have this wrong? Also, can the metal just be treated then epoxied? It was sand blasted before.

I want to do the work right but don't want to spend more time than necessary on this step. I have a lot to still get done.

Thanks again,


SAM
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Old 02-25-2009, 08:28 AM
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Sam,
there are consequences (labor) for making a mistake (stripping it all and leaving it exposed too long),,,,it's that simple....

you do want a pristine/brand new fresh steel surface for the epoxy to grab...
lightly spray a panel with Duplicolor or SEM rattle can Self Etch Primer for a light green surface contrast guide coat,,,just enough so you can see it,,to be sure you DO re-DA all of the panel (it sands off very easy and if any is left behind it is compatible with the epoxy)....
anything you can't get with the DA,,,use the sand blaster...

as long as you keep the car dry and no battery connected it won't surface rust more very fast....

plan your day to re-do only as much of the car surface as you can complete on that day,,,,DA/blast/clean/and epoxy...
(on your next car project only strip what you can complete within a couple of days max)

footnote:
you obviously have never used OSPHO,,,it does not disolve rust,,,doesn't make a bright steel surface,,,it makes a black phosphate salts coated surface,,,is why I posted Randy's thread...

the reason for baking soda is unless there is enough rust to react/neutralize the acid it will stay active for a very long time...
there may well be some "base Ph" ingredients in wax and grease remover but you can't flood some areas like seams to know it has gone neutral...
a 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in a Windex bottle filled with water and shaken,,,sprayed till there is no reaction bubbles...
followed with the wax and grease remover

bottom line:
we use acids only as a last last resort,,,it is a very common reason for paint failure!!!
if your not experienced/knowledgeable with acids don't use them!!!
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Old 02-25-2009, 05:12 PM
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Excellent advice and response. I appreciate your help and informative answer. I will try it.

Thanks again,

SAM
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Old 03-20-2009, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by off2wildblue
The DA sander I used on the bare metal did a terrible job. It is not the nicest DA but I bought it new at Lowes. It tends to slow down if you put any amount of pressure on it and if you don't it will only clean an area about 1" wide of so.

What do you like to treat the metal with after hand sanding? Ospho?

Also, if anyone has a video of them DA sanding bare metal I would appreciate it if you would post a link. I am just trying to figure out if I am doiing something wrong or if I should take this sander back.

Thanks,

SAM
ospho works great just scrub on with red scotch brite pad and wipe off excess with prep towels,then let sit 24 hrs to dry then epoxy prime
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Old 03-21-2009, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
ospho works great just scrub on with red scotch brite pad and wipe off excess with prep towels,then let sit 24 hrs to dry then epoxy prime
Very bad advice, the Ospho needs to be neutralized as has been already noted, or paint failure may result..

Vince
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Old 03-21-2009, 08:31 AM
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Not again!!! One more time ,I've been using it for twenty-five years,I use it to etch metal and treat rust spots after using wire wheel and cleaning,I would not ever epoxy prime bare metal without etching with IT first. I've never had a problem with jobs coming back,quite the oppisite,it makes the primer stick like crazy.If yove ever used it and had a problem,PM me I'll show you how to do it and you'll be converted just like BarryK is now. If you've never used it,dont be so quick to say" bad advise" it'll be embaressing when I prove you wrong.Trust me I know what I'm talking about or I wouldnt be talking about it I really dont want to get into a debate again,if anyone wants to know more about this stuff,PM me,it works great I swear!!!!!!! OSPHO
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:33 AM
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Problems with OSPHO

Deadbodyman, I have liked OSPHO but I have had adhesion problems with epoxy primer after OSPHO treatment. I believed it must be the OSPHO, so I did some research and have found others that have had problems with it as well. I have been using a wire wheel with it wet to get metal cleaned up as best I can. Waited 24 hrs and then wire wheeled off any excess. I followed this by wax and grease remover then epoxy primer. This is with SPI epoxy primer (great stuff). So I went to the SPI web site where Berryk recommends not using OSPHO. Can you help me with what I am doing wrong since I would like to have these extra protection provided by OSPHO without the adhesion problems I have experienced?

Tom
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Old 03-21-2009, 09:58 AM
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Moderators Note

No squabbling guys..if you are going to use any of the rust converter products or OSPHO or any of that stuff read the instructions..the product I use says clearly to remove any residue of the product before applying any paint..Other products may differ somewhat but the main cause of paint failures is the failure of the applicator to follow instructions pertaining to the product he is using..

Nuff Said

Sam
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